Civ's agriculture dynamics could be more realistic. This mod is a great start. I think it would be great to make a mod that includes discovering crops and picking which crop to grow on a tile. For example, growing rice instead of wheat in a tropical area near the equator should result in a higher yield.

The ability to make a random farm that increases food yield by one didn't ever make sense to me. There's only a few main staple crops. Makes sense to pick one for your tile. But not sure how to work out climate dynamics.

Khmer laugh in the holy granary

@Mk Z Catalhoyuk did not practice agriculture in the lower layers, and survived on hunting and gathering. Only in later periods did they adopt farming.

@Dunkleosteus, Catal Hoyuk was an agricultural settlement
there were no cities before agriculture

I love this mod, it makes feeding the population as limited as it should be!

Great mod, but I have a small nitpick. Maybe you could rename the school of Philosophy to the Academy?

@Dunkleosteus - I'm hoping you find time to get this mod updated. It really made the early game better!

Yeah, sorry, Dunk..
Haven't had the time.. didn't even notice your comment until now.

BROKEN. Won't load. (No other mods in use) Please fix. Owns ALL DLCs.

@dudey if you tell me which mods I might be able to see what the problem is.

@Dunkleosteus I've gotten the game to launch but I had to turn off a few mods that refused to load while enabled. When I first subscribed to this mod I was using at least a dozen more than I have turned on now with no issues.

I haven't even felt like loading up the game since my last post when the mod stopped working.

I'll pop in and give it a test to make sure it is working.

@Dunklosteus: The game starts without crashing, yes. But I do get some errors in the database.log.

Can anyone tell me what problems they're having? I booted up a new game and I didn't crash. also @knasp, I see you tried to message me about a week and a half ago on civfanatics, sorry for not seeing that earlier.

I've been playing with this mod and enjoy its difficulties and mechanics, above all withe de -1 food on all terrain. I have a problem, though: The hability to build farms is way too far in the tree, and sometimes i simply cant get my cities to grow because there nowhere to build farms. This hability should come earier, with irrigation or something. Thank you

The June 2019 patch has broken this mod, which is sad since I've built my own mod as an Expansion of this one. In order to make it work I decided to simply include the fixed version of Dunklosteus' code in my own mod.

Feel free to try it out and let me know what you think: https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1778838387

@Dudey, I haven't tested since recent patches. I'll take a look.

Doesn't appear to be working for me anymore.. After disabling mods one at a time for nearly an hour I sadly discovered that this, my favorite of everything I am subscribed to was the reason I could not load a new game. :(

Has worked in the past with more mods than I'd care to count without any issues. I have all of the DLC's.

Are we just waiting on an update or any idea what could be going wrong ?

This doesn't appear to be compatible with Steel and Thunder MOAR Units.

I know you can't ensure compatibility for other mods, just FYI for other users.

Love the idea. I have had similar misgivings and interests, but lack the modding skills to make something like this. I'm looking forward to playing it... once it is fixed. Comments indicate it does not work right now. :(

@eliott.gallois I think I can do it better than that, even. I didn't consider doing it this way, but it should be possible to make it optionally change the Vikings content only if a player has vikings.

Hey, I saw your mod and it looked awesome! As someone who is quite fond of history, this is the kind of changes I want to see the civ community implement a lot more. So I installed it. And I realised I couldn't play with it since I didn't have the Vikings DLC. And I don't think your mod requires it, it barely changes the Eyjafjallajökull if I'm not mistaken. If your are still updating this mod, it would be great to make a version of it that doesn't require a DLC that adds no civilization (and has poor replay value).
Just a thought! Thank you anyway for your work

Well, that's the thing, I didn't play with AgRev enabled because it conflicted with so many other mods. But once again I started a new game and my save is dead, and it's discouraged me enough to not want to put more time into a new game. I also am not interested in playing Civ vanilla so I wish I could just get a refund on GS.
I'd be more likely to try a 'lite' version of your mod as it would give me more confidence that my save wouldn't permacrash again. It's for that one reason I probably won't try a big, sprawling mod like this one. It definitely looks fun, though.

@cesium rainbow, thanks for the update. What were your thoughts on Agricultural Revolution when you used it?

No crash, it just wouldn't start a game. Which is the much preferred scenario; I'm now stuck with a constant, repeating crash around turn 300. Well, at least I know it's not your mod. Always suspicious of hidden mod incompatibilities first, but no idea how to isolate it\them.
Anyway I would really enjoy a version of your mod that only covers the agricultural changes. Except for the fact that despite a few hours of research on my mods, I still haven't even seen the information age in GS before the permacrash strikes. A total conversion mod like this probably lowers the chance of crashes but it still doesn't guarantee the chance to get to late game. Hell even with no mods that's not a guarantee.

@Dunkleosteus - apologies for not reading the prior posts adequately. A huge thanks for the update, great effort!

Great mod. Slowed down the game nicely and made it much more strategic. Looking forward to whatever tweaks you have. Thanks!

@Cesium Rainbow, yeah, I kinda figured. This is sort of a total conversion mod, so stuff like that is bound to happen. Did you get a crash when you tried to use them together or did one of them just not work properly? Update inbound btw.

And like many other mods, now that I look at the full change list. Would be nice to have a more granular mod so I didn't have to pick between this one and like 2 dozen others

Incompatible with Strategic Resources

ashar26, I previously said this wasn't possible, but that is incorrect. it's incredibly easy. the update will be available soon, likely tonight once I go through it one more time to look for any problems. There will be a few other changes and fixes as well.

Anyone else played the Inca and not got the Irrigation tech boost for building 3x terrace Farms?

Is it possible add a new study called "farming" ?. included wheat, corn, rye, rice, barley, oat, millet, spelled ?. Thanks for your mod, I like it.

Ouch. That sucks.

@Nebulancer, actually all uniques require strategic resources in the next expansion, Gathering Storm. That's coming out in 10 days.

Is it possible to add Corn as a resource? I would really like it for immersion. Thank you.

(2 of 2)My point is that even if a civ didn't possess a huge quantity of iron or horses directly, for an elite, unique unit, a civ always found a way to make it work. Bronze swords and oxen pulling chariots also come to mind. Anyway, my humble suggestion/request is to make a version of this mod that doesn't add a strategic resource dependency to unique units.

(1 of 2)I know that this overhaul is all about realism and I like it for the most part, but requiring strategic resources for a civ's unique unit really sucks the fun out of a lot of playthroughs - especially when it comes to something like horses or iron, which were possessed in some quantity by essentially every classical-era civilization in Eurasia. Even Japan, which had a notable lack of quality iron deposits, still made do and was able to produce samurai swords. The lack of quality metal was, in fact, the source of the advanced smithing techniques that were required to make it work and, thus, the source of the uniqueness.

As another example, was Egypt really teeming with horses? No, but you only need a handful for your nobles' war chariots. Did Brazil have large iron deposits? I wouldn't know, but the Minas Geraes wasn't built in Brazil. It and its sister ship the Sao Paulo were purchased from and manufactured by Britain on contract, so whether Brazil had iron is moot.

@Dunkleosteus, yes of course in pre class/primitive communism/whatever they call it these days societies one doesnt expect much stratification and of course the move to agriculture brings exponential technological interdependence- primarily of how to deal and control the surplus and defend it too. Want to store the surplus then pottery. Want to appear like a god to your people and predict the rise and fall of the Nile then astrology. Want to keep the outsiders from stealing your surplus, then some kind of military.

However since we start a game of civ 6 with the ability to farm and fight, this is probably of little consequence! Mea Culpa

Nvm, just saw that you were replying to phonebook, not me lol

You do start knowing agriculture, though. I've always interpreted the 'farm' improvement as simply being a large-scale, organized farm, as opposed to just a bunch of homesteaders growing stuff on their own (working a grassland/plains tile without a farm).

Even with farms in this overhaul, unless you're in lush grasslands or floodplains, your city growth will be extremely limited until you hit irrigation. Which makes sense, historically, and that's what I was commenting about before.

@phonebook I only know of a few "cities" that existed before agriculture, such as Catal Hoyuk, but it lacks a number of features that we might expect. It may have had as many as 8000 residents at it's peak, but there aren't any obvious signs of social stratification (ie some houses are larger, but otherwise don't appear to represent extra wealth) and all buildings appear to be dwellings. This means that there was no infrastructure, no buildings which served soley as managerial or governmental buildings or temples and as far as I'm aware, no buildings which appear to have been used for craft or trade. Basically it was a bunch of people that lived together, but that doesn't make a city because they seem to largely have been self-sufficient rather than inter-dependent.

Pretty nice. It makes the game feel almost fresh again, so kudos.

I do like the feel of having small cities (unless they're near floodplains) until you begin irrigating farms by rivers. Even by the classical era, most cities are small, which is accurate. And the re-worked tech/civic/eureka/inspiration dependencies generally make more sense than the vanilla.

Interesting overhaul. Going to give it a try.

this is indeed an interesting idea, however, a little re examination of the idea could be useful. Wjile it is true that agriculture allowed for predictable harvests, prior to that there were cities. These cities were in the middle of or near seemingly everlasting food sources. The impetus to agricutlure at least where it began in the Middle East was the depletion of the food sources of where people had settled. The exodus from those areas and subsequent starvation is one of rthe causes of agriculture.

With that in mind, perhaps a different solution would be that an unimproved food tile could only be worked for a certain number of turns before the food runs out on that tile - but could still be improved later- and that leaving it fallow for a certain number of turns would restore its unimproved food content.

However, this mod is an excellent idea indeed.

I just looked over all the changes you made over on civfanatics, and wow, what an incredibly well-thought-out mod! I think it might make the game a little too challenging for my casual-gamer tastes, but it's clear that you put serious time and attention and historicity into this. Thank you for your hard work -- I think I might try it anyway. :D

@macmearlen, that's a bit vague, though isn't it? Industrialization already increases farm yields by +1 globally, which is to represent innovations in sewing and managing crops which vastly improved the efficiency of labor in the agricultural sector. This efficiency is what allowed more people to move to cities. Prior to industrialization of agriculture, 90% of Britain's population was directly or indirectly involved in producing food. After industrialization, it was 50%. That represents a 500% increase in potential labour in urban centers.

An interesting Mod. I reviewed the full list of changes on Civfanatics and am somewhat skeptical about it. One thing that I feel needs to be added is a new technology called Green Revolution. This tech would effectively double the yields from all farm and plantation plots. It could be placed somewhere between Biology and Genetics. It would greatly reduce the possibility of Starvation in cities. Hope this idea is helpful.