Did you notice the AI using the special formations? The mostly don't. This great for human players who need their units to stop losing formation on large battlefields.

I think this needs more work. AI units act strange when using formations. AI is very likely in disadvantage when using this mod. I prefer not to use it

@bofan: I would say yes, likely for speed and charge acceleration which does somewhat affect charge speed bonus. The actual momentum in the crash does more damage as the charge stat. There are videos recommending not to set charge speed to high because the acceleration and mass themselves max out the limit to the charge bonus. Abilities actually require quite a bit of time with testing which I don't have. I spent 3 weeks testing newish special abilities for Thrones of B and released a special abilities mod over there. I think I wouldn't have time to test your suggestions soon since I'm now immersed in startpos work for AE.

Could the formation give massive penalties to charge speed bonus, charge speed and charge speed radius (distance from enemy required for charge animation to start)?

Any new version you release, I shall test for sure. The formations seriously bug me.

One could also overwrite special_ability_to_invalid_usage flag for shield wall's "enemy in proximity": This is OP however is it lets your unit charge again and again and keep the formation bonuses. If I do another release, I would test and consider this for hoplite phalanx and attacking testudo formations since those units don't seem to charge in the first place.

@bofan: I can't agree that they perform bad if you use them right. It is meant for defensive type units that won't get flanked. If one has formation bonuses at a significant level, they can be deadly. One needs to force the unit into the unit ahead using drag or attack. The charge thing sounds right. Read my new notes in the description. I'd like to see some tests of your theory; maybe true.

@Jacob: If I were to make this again, I might test out and use the testudo formation in column assume specific behavior. One can also use flying wedge formation in that column with confidence but it make your units line up funny. The pike wall behavior spaces them out but currently there is no option that I've tested that works and keeps formation.

Spent a couple of hours in custom battle with this mod and FOTE+EP Revised.

There seems to be something wrong with the animations that CA couldn't/wouldn't fix that make units in formation perform worse. Give them a ton of stat boosts and they will perform worse than light infantry without formed attack charging at a unit in any enabled formation.

What's worse, the AI gives the charge order and 10 m before impact decides to impose a formation at units that have it - resulting in a long staring contest from 2 opposing units in formation with the occasional attack animation being thrown. I've had situations where shield walls had no kills and no casualties for ~5 min. in batle even though they clearly have engaged.

Makes me think whether formations without the fix work as intended at all. Maybe the survivability of units in formation is due to the wonkiness of the animations, and not the inherent buffs that said formations claim to bring to the units.

is there a way for you to make the shield wall and attacking testudo formations regain the compact look their vanilla versions have?

I have different mods with shield wall stats at different values. This one is meant to demonstrate that you don't need to lose the shield wall and how other modders can do that.

shield wall is weaker than before
check it out

Mount and blade? i wish they enabled the steam workshop so i could download spear fixes. Thank u for the attention and when ready, i will download it for sure

I've lately been working on the Bretwalda mod for Bannerlord. It will be much better than TOB. I'll see if I can find time for this one this weekend. I doubt I'll have time to add a new formation though I know it can be done.

Also, there is possible to add defensive testudo for this mod?

There is only one formation mod and their spearwall sucks because its the vannila of attila implemented there, The defensive testudo breaks every time

I can try to find time. It is limited for me now. What is the player scene like in TOB?

Can you make these for Thrones of Britannia ? Please, i didnt found anyone good as yours

good mod

It applies the phalanx to the shield wall and moving testudo. Now they all act the same. You will have to:
1) mod the phalanx animation somehow (I haven't studied it) or
2) Use the correct method of attacking with phalanxes of forcing the unit to collide if the right click doesn't work.

You can also mod the formations which hasn't been done here so as not to overwrite battle mods that people like.

At least you can rest and shift your focus around the battlefield confident that your units won't lose formation and break.

while this is nice, i notice it slows combat alot when both sides are in these formations, they attack alot less, and sometimes just stare at each other or jitter around in the rear lines.

Is your mod compatible with this one?

https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1437717852&searchtext=

@littleShepherd thank you.

Nice!!!! TY

You were right. The "hoplite phalanx" was assigned the same number as the shield wall so it didn't work. Now it does again.
This wasn't part of the mod I was using so it might have something to do with the launcher and steam cloud vs steam local. Keep up the good testing!

Huh, strange. With the mod pack that you have that includes this mod with your other changes the spearwall work. No clue why.

battle mods none. Strange that the testudos formations and shield wall works. Only the spear does not for some reason.

I'll test it this weekend. Are you using other battle mods that could conflict?

hey. I can confirm diamond comment. My spear wall dont work too. Im playing with the jutes atm idk if others nations have the same problem. When I click on spear wall it does nothing. btw the ai can use it no problem. Shield wall, atk testudo are working fine on all units I used so far

I realize only now why I didn't get a response for my 'spearwall doesn't work' comment. When I said that the unit went into a deep formation. I was refering to the description of the formation. It doesn't actually do that nor does the unit gain the benefits. Clicking on it does nothing.

yeah its not a big issue. The formation only do this push trought past the units but its kind of rare maybe 1 in 20 +- idk. Nothing major :D

That bug has been around since Medieval Total War. It sounds like formations might make it worse. Nevertheless, even the line of units keep the superior stats. I wonder how often it happens.

Ill try to take pics next time. For exemple they will squish (idk if its the right word) and try to push trought becoming a straight line of bugged men at the walls on corridors/streets. Like they slowly advance past my units blocking the way and becoming like a "serpent" formation. LOL sounds weird I know hahahaha.

Formations in street battles sounds like an improvement over just charging. What exactly is wrong with it?

I've being using this mod and it works rly great!! The only problem Ive found was on siege/street battles. Ai sometimes bugs and adopt a weird/bugged formations. Its hard to explain (english is not my first language). More of a pathfinding problem that it became confused. I tested and this happens only using the mod (when they advance on wall or testudo) and on street/siege enviroment.
I know sieges are bugged as hell on vanilla lol and nothing we can do about it but just want to leave this feedback incase is something u can work about it.

What did you find out?
"The only way to stay in a formation and "attack" is to not issue an order in the first place but simply move your unit to where the enemy unit is."
That's the purpose of the mod. You can select your unit and right click on the enemy target without them going into charge mode. The stay in formation for you and the AI, fully using the available formation stats.
I really miss formations in the Warhammer series. It adds a significant tactical consideration and makes battles more challenging and also more winnable.

Attacking/mobile testudo had stats before the Garamantian update which obviously was an error as it broke on contact. This is obvious as it is taken straight from Rome 2; defensive testudo, on the other hand, does not break. Therefore, the stats were just a bonus.

I was going to make a video on how the AI can be "dragged" into suiciding their units because of the debuff that CA increased. I couldn't find a value in Rome 2's database but in Attila its about 20-30 seconds.

I'll give the mod a try because Attila's dead anyway and it can't hurt.

I guess since this is essentially a mod for a mod (?) you could say its good for hoplites.

Yes, you come out of a formation by issuing an attack order; historically, this is logical. I guess your mod changes this so you don't have to. Charges simply happen when you're in "charging distance" (the database isn't very clear in any game but I assume its about 40 meters). Even a single click can issue a charge, not an attack order. The only way to stay in a formation and "attack" is to not issue an order in the first place but simply move your unit to where the enemy unit is.

No, CA didn't get rid of the option to stay in a formation in Attila; before Emperor Edition, that's just how it was. Its just like with Empire and Napoleon where you could get into square even if you were in combat but in the next game that was removed. Why? Balancing, most likely.

Actually nvm It works for none of the spear units for me, again the AI can use it but I can't

Nordic spearmen, spearwall formation: The units enter a deep, closely packed formation

What is the specific formation or unit? I'll test it.

It's great but my units refuse to go into the spear wall, even though the AI's units do.

egypt included.

I have seem some conversion mods but I don't have time for that now. The fellows who do such overhauls spend an enormous amount of time with the core data files of CA and do extensive testing. I recommend Ancient Empires if you want to mix things up. My next focus will likely be modding Warband/Bannerlord battle formations since I can actually program it.

can u make a mod for this game and make a viking army or roman army for campaign or atleast a persian army and they control the right region. like the viking army would rule england and the roman army would rule from italy to the coast near england. and persia would control asia to egypt.

i will say that i think this is great mod work for those folks who wanted this change, and there are many. so thank you for making the community better. I stand by my original points though...in attila there is a very specific set of tactics and commands required for shield wall and spear wall. It is in fact those 2 formations that make me prefer this title in battles tbh.

Here is something you said about a WRE unit with shield wall"
" Unlike the Legio, these guys are balanced; they work fairly well stationary but can push up where they are needed, in shieldwall or out of it."
They actually can't "push up" with any kind of click and retain the wall. Skilled players can figure out ways to accidentally have them get pushed into by dragging. This is much more tedious than right clicking so why bother with the painful maneuvering when we can just mod it away?

First, a shout out to a great mod that uses hoplite phalanx with real hoplites as a core formation:
https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1385069240&searchtext=ancient+empires+part

You attack by right clicking a unit on another unit.
If you do this with any of the mobile formations in this mod, the formation dissolves and the unit charges, losing its formation and unable to reform it. Charges are supposed to occur on a double right click.

In Rome 2 and earlier games, one could right click and retain the formation. It has been lost in Attila due to CA.

"Once you're in shieldwall, you're in a formation and you can't charge."
It breaks if you try to engage the enemy without a charge.
"It won't break if you're in combat and right click unless the unit routs/retreats.'
Attacking Testudo breaks even if you just stand there without engaging intentionally.
The statement does not make much sense to me.
Let's hear from others.
I like your write up for Attila.

How do you "attack" with an attacking testudo? Didn't they rename it "mobile" testudo so it makes more sense?

When you right click on an enemy, you're issuing an attack order. Naturally, that's an order to either (1) charge the unit or (2) attack them if your unit is already in combat. Obviously (2) is bad in Attila but they have it there for a reason. Once you're in shieldwall, you're in a formation and you can't charge. It won't break if you're in combat and right click unless the unit routs/retreats.

No hoplites in Attila, just pikes.

I disagree. The whole point of "attacking testudo", shield wall, and hoplite phalanx is to attack the enemy. History makes the best case. You get no charge bonus on contact when in these formation so I don't understand the point. Also, there are 4-5 other formations which are only stationary, and any player will tell you they have little use on an open battlefield. FInally, some factions (looking at Romans) have almost no charge bonus. The make up for it with disciplined formations. If they can't move with them, they lose.