ooooooooo this is just what i was looking for. Locked research seems more realistic

Made an update of this:
https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2590854684
Hope it helps anyone!

13

Is this mod being worked on still? Might take a stab at it otherwise. I've been thinking of a similar concept for a while. I specially like the datadisks, precious old world tech knowledge.

does this work with 1.2?

@Franimus currently it requires Royalty but I'm currently working on a new update which will include a version that doesn't require Royalty.

Is there a version of this that does not require the DLC?

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After testing it a bit, I was expecting more, so this mod just pay tons of steel for get a random tech, them just after than you still need to make the usual vanilla researching ...
And worse because I can't use a convenient research organizer mod like research pal, and the names just sandwich the tabs than are not pleasant to read. The execution of this mod needs to be revisited. Iam assuming you're still fleshing out the idea and this is just a pretty alpha start

Doing a run with this mod and generally enjoying it. That said I would love to see:
- The bill ANY added in the Experiment and Study sections to allow for less micromanaging if you are not picky.
- Being able to study experiments in filing cabinets. If not I feel better off just using a deep storage solution instead.
- Perhaps copying 'random research' (it is a mod) to allow researchers to then assign themselves projects (if you do not do it for them) to cut back on micromanaging (straight improvement from vanilla).
- Some research speed increase mechanic to justify how expensive experiments can be. I'm playing tribal right now so maybe that is biasing me (they are slow).

ok ignore my previous question, looking carefully it's not compatible (at least for now) since that mod needs researtree or pal

would this mod be compatible with the mod [JTP] human resources? if used together it basically cover the complete line of R&D, R for this mod and D for that mod

So, a small update on the crash. Changing load order didn't help, but removing the mod did seem to fix load/save time issues. I think it's either the job driver or hediff (researcher) values conflicting with something, but not really sure what.

Will give an update if I figure out what it is; for now there doesn't seem a risk of losing the colony save, so people needn't worry about trying out the mod!

Hi @Cheesus, thanks for the mini review! It is greatly appreciated :)

To give some kind of answers based on what you've said:

1. I think you discovered something that I forgot to update! You are correct in thinking the description is wrong. You can however sell 'duplicates' if you ever happened to have any.

2. I cannot say what is causing that error. I have never experienced hard crashes whilst during development. The only thing I can suggest is to put the mod at the lowest of the mod order as you can.

3. The gameplay mechanics surrounding research has been quite a bit of 'design debate' with myself. I agree that the experiment process could be streamlined a bit. The idea about queuing towards a particular unlock/type sounds interesting.
Obviously, there is the whole balance between immersive-ness and enjoyable gameplay. In a future update, I will have to think of ways to keep the 'unknown reward' side of experiments intact, whilst also reducing the jankyness of it.

With regards to mod research projects, it is the most frustrating part of development. With the way mods work, it would be nigh impossible to assign mod projects to the experiment types and sizes, because I have to do it manually. I do agree that it is ridiculously tedious, especially with lots of mods. The only possible workarounds I can think of at the moment is to make mods exempt from the experiments system, or to make it so completing a mod experiment unlocks the entire tree for that particular mod.

4. This is quite a hard topic to think of a workaround for. If you are familiar at all with Rimworld mod making, you will understand why it is a difficult problem. It is possible to have modifiers on jobs (skill level for example) so the ideas you brought up about colony wealth and tech level being modifiers is definitely possible.

With regards to costs, I initially tried to implement an increasing curve as you already mentioned. I agree that some of them are a little bit excessive, and could be tuned a bit.

If you have anymore questions, don't be afraid to ask! :)

-Part 1-

This mod was a fresh take on the research side of the game that I really enjoyed. Thank you.
That said, I don't see much feedback here, so I've detailed my experiences and thoughts of the current mod. Hope it helps.

I'm a little confused by the finished research- the description says it can safely be sold, but as I understand it'd be wise to put it in the filing cabinet to prevent loss of knowledge?

I experienced a weird save corruption where my games took longer to save/load and finally the game crashed when trying to save/load. No idea if this is related to the mod, but this is my first game since the royalty DLC and I think this is the only new mod I added, so thought I should mention in case anyone else experiences this. Couldn't find any debug logs about it...

-Part 2-

It gets very tedious to be pairing the size of research project with the type. I think this is the biggest detractor from my enjoyment of the mod and that was just with vanilla, let alone 140 modded researches. Some automatic way of scheduling research would be nice. Maybe I just tell them to pursue a particular type, or select a tech goal and researchers try and meet it?

Cost of research projects stretches out the game which is good and I like getting more use from earlier tech, but I've used all the steel on my map + started importing it and still haven't researched electricity, yet alone drills or whatever medium biology is (haven't had insects yet, so that tech is RNG locked). Some change to research costs- simple decrease, manually assigning to each tech or automatically setting them based on research points/tech level might help. Maybe scale it with colony wealth?

love the idea but if it doesnt work with Research Tree or other research organizers, then i think im going to hold off on this mod for now

Thanks for the info mate, good luck with the coding

@Rutra Nickers, at the moment it does require Royalty to work, however I plan to rectify this in a few weeks or so.

Is the Royalty a hard dependency?

Hi @Acorn, the mod research portion is quite an annoying area for me, you could try putting Immersive Research lower down in the mod load order?

I really REALLY love this idea but after testing it out briefly it seems to have problem with unlocking mod research...Vanilla items seems to work enough

Gonna tinker with mod list and see if it helps

I like the concept. Fix the errors and I might just use it.

I really like what this mod is trying to do. Doing research the Vanilla way is too fast and easy for my taste, so this adds a bit of challenge. I also really enjoy the ability to be rewarded with a random research unlock by finding disks.

I'd like to make one suggestion: would it be possible to add an option (through the mod options menu) for players to select which experiment category researches introduced by mods should belong in? I currently have 113 researches added by mods, and unlocking them all through the Unknown/ModResearch experiment is going to be far too random for my taste. As a result, I'm probably going to disable the mod for now, sadly.

is this compatible with dubs mint menu's research tab? and if not are there any research organizer mods that are compatible?

Nice idea, but with many mods that add new tech... you can notmore real work with the vanilla research menu.... because it gets terrible overfilled.

hey, I'm running into an issue with the experiment table. it is working just fine for all non-mod tech, but with mods, A) the experiment seems to take 75 steel not 750 silver, and B) it doesn't seem to unlock mod-added technologies. not throwing an error, just making a folder with no effect on the tech tree.

This mod is awesome, but I wish it worked a little differently. It would be amazing if you chose the area of research and then it unlocked a random (possible) tech in that area, rather than unlocking the option, it simply completely researched it if you see what I'm saying

The mod seems not to work at all for me. I can build the things from the mod but i can also research normally without having to use said mod at all. Also, when i try to set up an experiment i have no options working together.
Am i doing something wrong?

at Verse.AI.Toils_Recipe.CalculateDominantIngredient (Verse.AI.Job job, System.Collections.Generic.List`1 ingredients) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at Verse.AI.Toils_Recipe+<FinishRecipeAndStartStoringProduct>c__AnonStorey2.<>m__0 () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at Verse.AI.JobDriver.TryActuallyStartNextToil () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
Verse.Log:Error(String, Boolean)
Verse.AI.JobUtility:TryStartErrorRecoverJob(Pawn, String, Exception, JobDriver)
Verse.AI.JobDriver:TryActuallyStartNextToil()
Verse.AI.JobDriver:ReadyForNextToil_Patch1(Object)
Verse.AI.<DoRecipeWork>c__AnonStorey1:<>m__1()
Verse.AI.JobDriver:DriverTick()
Verse.AI.Pawn_JobTracker:JobTrackerTick()
Verse.Pawn:Tick_Patch1(Object)
Verse.TickList:Tick()
Verse.TickManager:DoSingleTick()
Verse.TickManager:TickManagerUpdate()
Verse.Game:UpdatePlay()
Verse.Root_Play:Update_Patch1(Object)

JobDriver threw exception in initAction for pawn Worm driver=JobDriver_DoBill (toilIndex=13) driver.job=(DoBill (Job_948911) A=Thing_ExperimentBench601872 B=Thing_UnfinishedExperiment603196 C=(286, 0, 97)) lastJobGiver=Verse.AI.ThinkNode_QueuedJob
System.InvalidOperationException: Operation is not valid due to the current state of the object
at System.Linq.Enumerable.First[Thing] (IEnumerable`1 source, System.Func`2 predicate, Fallback fallback) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
at System.Linq.Enumerable.First[Thing] (IEnumerable`1 source, System.Func`2 predicate) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

Hi @Imjay, with regards to experiments, do you get any errors anywhere when your pawn completes an experiment?

ah i know wats causing the disks not to be consumed, it seems if there is i stack of them right next to the decoder it will use them all instantly but not consume any however once the stack is moved away from the decoder the pawn will grab them one at a time then they get conumed correctly

hate to be a pain but im now also getting a error wen trying to perform experiments, it says i hav 9 small bio researches but wen i do them nothing comes of it and i cant stop the pawn doing the experiment even if i delete or suspend it the pawn keeps doing it until i deconstruct the bench

@hubba i simply told my pawn to use the research data disk and they dont get consumed, i get the research unlocked but i also keep the data disk

@Imjay, would you be able to let me know the steps you did to encounter that bug? I can't reproduce it on my end.

using the research datadisc doesnt use the item

Should be fixed now.

I'm getting an error when butchering animals that looks like it's because of this mod after the update.

JobDriver threw exception in initAction for pawn Willo driver=JobDriver_DoBill (toilIndex=13) driver.job=(DoBill (Job_114891) A=Thing_TableButcher125679 B=Thing_Corpse_Capybara122298 C=(48, 0, 116)) lastJobGiver=RimWorld.JobGiver_Work
System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
at ImmersiveResearch.LoreComputerHarmonyPatches.SetFinishedExpOnMake (Verse.RecipeDef&) <0x0002a>
at (wrapper dynamic-method) Verse.GenRecipe.MakeRecipeProducts_Patch1 (Verse.RecipeDef,Verse.Pawn,System.Collections.Generic.List`1<Verse.Thing>,Verse.Thing,RimWorld.IBillGiver) <0x0007f>
at Verse.AI.Toils_Recipe/<FinishRecipeAndStartStoringProduct>c__AnonStorey2.<>m__0 () <0x002b6>
at Verse.AI.JobDriver.TryActuallyStartNextToil () <0x0071f>

@adalast thats an interesting idea, and probably possible with a good amount of effort. RIght now experiments are based on a colonists research skill only, although i'll look into your suggestion.

Yay stackable DDs... and the Experiment thing sounds good. It is kind of an analog to reality, where an experiment shows some deeper truth or science that requires more investigation intellectually.

I would make different experiments require different skills to execute. Doesn't make sense to have Machining come from an intellectual tack over a crafting/smithing, or planting trees not come from plants

Hi Everyone,

Apologies for the lack of updates, I've been quite busy with IRL things + other things I've been working on.

The next update will include an 'Experiment' system, where you 'perform an experiment' by selecting its type and size. Each experiment has its own resource costs. These experiments will choose from much smaller lists, making it much easier to choose which research projects you want to go for.

Datadisks will still be a thing, but will not be the ONLY way to obtain research, just a quicker and maybe more expensive/risky option.

I just have a few more bugs to iron out + some more testing to do on these things, plus adding in the requested features like stackable datadisks.

As it stands, this mod just makes the game pretty much unplayable with tons of mods because the progress with anything just stays at 0(and a mechanist that starts with apparently self-invented droid tech is anything but illiterate, tyvm).

Also the descriptions of all 4 useless discs(originally a RW, 2 thrumbo pics and something about a skyline) I got changed to "stop cheating" after a reload for no good reason.
no u

@cactus time: Everything is supposed to come from encrypted data disks, but I have dev moded in, and legitimately gotten, close to a thousand encrypted data disks in my game where I was using this mod, and not a single research disk came out. Something is bugged in the roll table that he is using to determine output from the encrypted disks.

And unless he has updated it, and over his objections, the research unlocks seem to be unweighted. I unlocked most of the spacer technology before I got machining and smithing. He really needs to setup a list of essential technologies that get unlocked first, then do randoms from there. Essentially the probability of it appearing needs to depend on the number of things that require it, the length of the dependent chain, and the inverse on the tech level (so lower techs get unlocked first).

I'm using this mod and it's been throwing some errors. It seems like an incompatibility with RF's fishing since it throws this error mentioning your mod every time I try to butcher a fish, but I have no idea why this would be the case... I tried messing with the load order but nothing seems to let these mods work together.

JobDriver threw exception in initAction for pawn Ent driver=JobDriver_DoBill (toilIndex=13) driver.job=(DoBill (Job_391322) A=Thing_TableButcher74864 B=Thing_RawFishTiny91866 C=(127, 0, 86)) lastJobGiver=RimWorld.JobGiver_Work
System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
at ImmersiveResearch.LoreComputerHarmonyPatches.AddDataDiskToMechanoidLoot (Verse.Thing) <0x0001e>
at (wrapper dynamic-method) Verse.Thing.ButcherProducts_Patch2 (object,Verse.Pawn,single) <0x00034>
at Verse.GenRecipe/<MakeRecipeProducts>c__Iterator0.MoveNext () <0x00875>
at System.Collections.Generic.List`1<Verse.Thing>.AddEnumerable

so do you need research disks to get not useless datadisks from the datadisk analyzer?

@adalast thanks ill just dev mods a research disk in whenever i get a useless one

@Imjay this is the part of the mod which I feel needs balanced the most. At the start, you should be swimming in research disks, with them getting rarer and rarer as you go on. I had to Dev Mode drop research disks in. I did literally thousands of disks and got 0 research disks, then I started dev moding them in because it just wasn't working. It is a shame, but I haven't seen anyone respond that they are having good luck getting research disks.