@sergej Tks for the answer ! I put the mod as the last to load so it should get priority over any mods changing the grail knights stats ; This should be the only mod editing the grail knights stats, but I guess I'll check all of them in details to be sure

@JeanFrantome
Some other mod must be editing the grail knight entries in land_units_tables, so that the changes are conflicting the game uses the .pack file with the higher priority. This mod edits the main_units_tables which reduced the number of entities and land_units_tables to edit stats. If you have a different mod editing the grail knights, bump up the hp values in that mod in RPFM (pack file tool).

@JeanFrantome
The HP values appear correct for me, yes. Quite odd...

@Dux
I did change it but only to do some testing ; then I uninstalled it to reinstall it in its original version. It might be a problem on my side, since for every mod I've tried that changes the stats of the grail knights, everything is well implemented except the health value ; I don't have any mod changing their stats though, but I will try without any mod to see if it works. Does the HP values appear correctly when in campaign for you ?

@JeanFrantome

I am not sure what that cause of that bug could be. The HP values appear correctly changed on my end. Did you change the mod at all?

This mod looks great, thanks !
There is a bug though in my bretonia campaign: the hp is not doubled (I play on medium, so 16 knights, with 1792 hp instead of the 3360 hp expected for grail knights for example). Do you have any idea on how to solve this ?
Edit: When I change the "hp bonus" value it doesn't work for some reason, even though it is indeed doubled... unless the issue is with another stat, it is probably a game's issue unfortunatly

@cabrown85

I did not. I know that there are some other mods that do modify mass, but my feeling is that it feels a little fake since these units are not actually any larger; they're just elite. Blood Knights and Grail Knights/Guardians do get splash attacks with this mod, though. Coupled with their increased weapon strength values, this vastly increases their effectiveness against large groups of infantry to make up for their lower numbers.

did you adjust the mass of the units to account for the lower unit count? otherwise their charges will be significantly weaker.

@Teridax

After further testing, I think your feedback was good, so I've changed Dragon Princes to remove the extra bonuses in favor of more straight damage. I think we're in a good state right now.

Also about specialist roles, since High Elves have multiple chariots units and even anti infantry War Lions, having Dragon Princes specialize into anti infantry too seems unnecessary and with Silver Helms being a mid tier unit, there is only one sole high tier cavalry so they should remain a rare generalist unit in the High Elven roster.
A devastating charge against everyone since your average Dragon Prince has likely enough experience, to fight against everything or even anything effectively which is reflected by their massive melee attack and defense when martial mastery is still active.

Ah didn't noticed the fact you increased their weapon damage not by as much as Chaos Knights.

Yeah, i know the bonus to weapon damage from charge follows the existing ratio of the unit but it's the combination of that increased hit strength and melee attack making them more likely to hit too which feels too extreme of a change compared to vanilla.

Personally i would just boot the weapon strength by those missing 5% since it's not like Dragon Princes would start hard countering Grail and Blood Knights or rather any cavalry harder than they already do.

@Teridax

So I added the Bonus vs. Infantry to make up for the fact that I didn't increase the Weapon Damage of Dragon Princes as much as I increased it for Chaos Knights (10% vs. 15%). I figured it might be more interesting to specialize the Dragon Princes a bit, as this feels in line with the High Elf theme of highly specialized units. It's worth noting that while Bonus vs. X does increase Weapon Damage against X, it does so only in proportion to the unit's base damage (i.e., it not a straight buff to AP damage, but a buff to overall damage at the same ratio as the unit's non-AP/AP value). I still want units like Grail Knights and Blood Knights to hard counter Dragon Princes, but I feel like it's fine if they can run roughshod over most infantry given their martial mastery.

I could just remove the bonus and increase base weapon damage, though, if that's what most users would prefer.

Dang, steam character limit again

2: Or since CA intends them to be the ultimate shock unit, no matter against what except the most armoured enemies by giving the Princes a staggering 80 charge and also a far higher weapon damage amount than both Blood and Grail Knights, improve their charge value by a small amount (5 points) while giving Chaos Knights a bit more weapon strength (Maybe one more ap point and one or two more regular weapon damage) since the latter are massive hulking brutes because of their mutations/gifts while the Dragon Princes wield the longest lances of all cavalry, giving them a theoretical reach advantage against both spear/pike infantry and other lance wielding cavalry.

Not really a fan of bonus vs infantry addition too since that change is quiet huge by improving melee attack and weapon damage, including armour piercing all the time against that particular unit size class.
I tested it with and without mod as good i could since currently there is a major vanilla bug affecting all cavalry units. (They receive massive damage when getting countercharged by infantry, far higher than what cavalry would dish out themself against their target)

So my suggestions are the following:
1. Either do nothing beyond the already adjusted health and weapon damage changes

In 99% of cases, Regiments of Renown are used identically to their generic counterparts but are better for the role. That's why I think it would be fine to give Dragon Princes Bonus vs Large rather than Bonus vs Infantry as long as it's lesser compared to the Fireborn.

@AutumnChain93

I didn't update Swords of Chaos because they seem like they're in a good spot already. They have a very low unit count, very high HP, and massive splash attacks. As for the Fireborn, their whole thing is that they're an Anti-Large version of Dragon Princes, which usually are not. The unique nature of the RoR would be nullified if regular Dragon Princes were Anti-Large as well. I also realized in developing this that giving a unit both a Bonus vs. Infantry and a Bonus vs. Large doesn't really make any sense, as you may as well just increase Melee Attack and Weapon Strength at that point. The whole point of the bonuses is to increase damage only against a particular class.

I didn't see an image for the Swords of Chaos. Did you miss them? Also, since The Fireborn are Bonus vs Large, maybe the same thing should be for regular Dragon Princes.

Mod has been updated to include Dragon Princes and Chaos Knights! I hope the handful of people using this mod enjoy. I tested these changes to make sure balance was maintained, but I may have missed something, so please report any glaring balance issues with the new changes here.

48/36 unit sizes sounds like a fantastic compromise.
Clearly a step above other heavy shock cav but still not on the same level as literal super beings.

Yes, I agree that Dragon Princes and Chaos Knights should be individually better than typical knights like Empire Knights or Silver Helms but not better than Grail Knights or Blood Dragons who are superhumanly empowered. While Chaos Knights are superhumanly empowered as well, the Chaos Gods are fickle and mutations can be detrimental as well as beneficial.

I am toying with the idea of meeting somewhere in the middle with Dragon Princes and Chaos Knights. I wouldn't cut the number of either by as much, but would make them akin to Cold One Knights (i.e., 48 max / 36 on large unit size). Chaos Knights could receive a bit more raw damage to compensate, and maybe Dragon Princes could receive small bonuses vs BOTH Infantry and Large to represent their martial mastery. Still just an idea at this stage.

Dang steam character limit.

Lore wise, from what i have read on those threads, they are just regular elves.
Which still means centuries worth of combat experience, especially those princes since they are at the very top of the high elven army, elven breed horses which outmatch human horses in everything but strength and resilence, high quality ithilmar barding for their horses which is by itself an incredible metal alloy and only matched by the dwarven smiths, awesome dragon armour which is forged in vaul's anvil for the riders and finally their ancesters once rode real dragons until most of them went into hibernation because of the changed weather caused by the old ones, forcing the later dragon princes into riding horses.

Fuck, I am turning into a high elven fan at this rate.
I need to start another ikit claw campaign to cure myself.

Too be honest, i have no clue since i am a historical player who was captured by the charm of this magnificent game and the previous part.

But i saw threads on reddit which mention blood, grail and chaos knights, cold one cavalry and dragon princes as the very top of the regular cavalry, both in lore and tabletop.
Cold ones are already balanced like that in vanilla and well there are now mods for the rest except the princes.

Gameplay wise it would make sense too.
You have fast light cavalry in form of reavers, regular heavy shock cav with silver helms and finally ... again regular but just more expensive and stat better heavy shock cav with the dragon princes?
They literally have the same function and role as silver helms.

@Teridax

I would consider giving Dragon Princes the same treatment, although I am not familiar enough with the lore or tabletop to be sure I am doing it accurately. Are Dragon Princes meant to be at the same level as Grail Knights and Blood Knights, i.e., essentially superhuman (or super-elf)? I am not sure a reduction in number and increase in HP commensurate with what I've done here would be appropriate for Dragon Princes.

Really liking the idea of this mod and i also downloaded that chaos "pony" fix mod by chaosrobie which turns chaos knight into monstrous cavalry, both in visuals but in stats too.

Sadly, i can't find a mod giving dragon princes the same treatment.
All i can find in the workshop are mods giving them small stat improvements or huge ones and making them more expensive but no mod which turns them into smaller but more elite forces like yours while mostly preserving their current relative balance.

I would be very glad if you adjust dragon princes in the future too.

@AutumnChain93

That's true, yes, and one intentional effect of this mod is that these units are now less susceptible to AOE damage. On the other hand, they now put out less overall damage at full strength (their weapon strength was increased by 30%, but there are 47% fewer models dealing damage now), and they are more susceptible to high burst AP damage, such as that from artillery. Overall, the balance should be similar to vanilla, but the units definitely do have altered strengths and weaknesses.

Just something to note. If you alter a units model count, you also alter its effective hit points since more or less attacks can hit it at a time (especially AOE attacks like spells) so you might want to consider making these units have less health than their more numerous vanilla value.