@everyone @ProfessorHen @Silver5word

I have an update to the situation of this mod.

While playtesting my other mods, I discovered a taxi getting stuck due to the "citizen runaway problem". This is something I did not expect/anticipate; perhaps CO's fix was not about this problem.

Combined with the situation surrounding long trains, the easiest way out is to resurrect this mod. I'm sorry for the confusion this update may cause to you all.

Will update soon-ish.

See https://github.com/Vectorial1024/BetterTrainBoarding/issues/3

It has become a bit of a nightmare managing the existing 3 similar but different transport-related mods. The technical differences are not obvious to the average user and my suggestions had degenerated to "just use all of them".

Ah good call! tbh I did not think about this long-train use case when sunsetting this mod... it is unusual to have super long trains anyway.

But, while this feature currently still exists in this mod, in the longer run it seems best to move it to Better Train Boarding, since both are train-related.

what about the cims despawning feature for long trainsets? That definitely was not fixed and I still find this mod useful as a result; will you create a fork or incorporate this feature into another mod?

@everyone

I finally have time to get back to this, and realized @ProfessorHen was right: this mod is obsolete as of patch 1.17.1-f2, which was about 2 years ago.

Thank you all for your support over the years!

The thumbnail is a work of art

I played around with this mod some more: it turns out that the problems previously noted is a result of some sort of incompatibility with Realistic Walking Speed; without it, the mod despawns cims stuck at stations pretty well.

Might want to put that in the description. Just a heads up.

Thank you for incorporating my request into your mod.

Didnt check the patchnotes + not sure what they meant + didnt check the code; I would keep this mod around just to be safe

Are there rogue passengers after last patch? In the patch notes they said, that they fix a problem where "Passengers are stuck at public transport stops", so I assume, this mod is no longer needed, isn't it?

Ok thank u so much for your explanation

@EddyM3

For "random node in the network", definitely not related to this mod. This mod is related to the trains etc getting stuck while at stations.

If the detailed explanation is confusing, you can take this TLDR: the trains etc may get stuck at stations because they are confused why some passengers said they would get onto the train but actually did not.

I have a problem where trains casually stuck at a random node in the network (someone said it was a TMPE related problem (idk)), does this mod prevents this problem? (I also didn't quite understand what you mean for deadlock)

it is not the EBS blocking the tram, it is the "Rogue passenger", he was quite far away from the tram, as a side note i have "Real Time" mod

As a general rule of thumb, this works for all transport types, eg trams.

Then, for each type of transport, there is a range such that, if rogue passengers are in range, they are allowed a chance to move towards (but not move away from) the vehicles.

Hopefully this is not EBS blocking the tram from departing...

Finally, "link removed"...

do you by any chance in the TMPE discord, i suggest you to come so we can discuss about this easily, the link is on TMPE, {LINK REMOVED}https://discord.com/invite/faKUnST. the developer of TMPE is really helpful

i just noticed something recently, the rogue/runaway citizen does not despawn... i waited for it to get unstuck and i saw a man walking painlessly (jaywalking) to the tram

is there any other mods that limit the function of despawning rogue citizen. i do use most of the essential mods; TMPE, algernon's more limit, Real Time, EML, etc?

they stay on boarding state for quite some times, i do use EBS, with "True tram mode" and it happens even with only 1 vehicle in the line

does it work with trams? since my trams still tend to stuck

Havent tested anything yet, but I would suggest *also* using Better Train Boarding along with this.

Maybe helps with reducing the amount pf people mong a long way to the correct train vehicle

If all else does not work, try reinstalling the mods:
- uninstall mod, start game to title screen
- install mod again, start game to title screen
- load your save

I use the 16-car variants of the N700A and 500 series
https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1863889142
https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1516576624

The 16-car shinkansen trainsets are roughly 400m in length (in comparison, the maximum permissible length of a station segment in CSL is 168m, meaning these trains are over double the length of vanilla train station).

However, the vehicle "softlock" also occurs with comparatively shorter trains, such as the JNR 485 Series (9car) and the Chu-Kuang Express (8-car)
https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1920707682
https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2450153726

These vehicles barely overhang (by less than half a car length, but also suffer the same issue. The only vehicles that did not seem to have issues were very short trains (i.e. 4-car consists), but admittedly, I wasn't paying too much attention to them.

But still, by "long trains", how long are your trains in question?

I pick this for testing:

https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2647021785&searchtext=mtr

I estimate that about 30% of the train is hanging outside of the vanilla station length, although in my test/play city, all stations are vanilla length. There are no extra-long train stations.

I will still have to allow cims to walk some time when eg in vanilla, cims might just walk the entire length of the platform before entering the train (Better Train Boarding improves this, but still, this is still possible). IMO, over-capacity vanilla trains in vanilla capacity has to be relevant.

@Silver5word

I'll just test this with a long train for real

hi Vectorial,

Thank you so much for implementing my request! I really appreciate it. However, after playing and testing the mod for awhile, I've noticed a few serious issues.

The first is that this mod seems to soft-lock any public transit that overhangs the station platform, regardless of ridership. I can see the passengers walk out and despawn, but the train doesn't move even after the platform is completely empty. It's not a 100% hardlock (complete prevention of train dispatch), but it's pretty close: I despawned every existing train, literally left the game running overnight, and by the next morning all trains were more or less all stuck waiting.

The second issue is that trying to spawn any new train faces a similar issue: new trains literally take 10 minutes (or more) to spawn.

I've taken the time to verify that it is, unfortunately, specifically this mod that is the problem (I ran two simulations, one with this new mod, and one without). Please check.

I am recently reminded of a GitHub issue that has been opened a while ago:

https://github.com/Vectorial1024/PublicTransportUnstucker/issues/6

Know that the stuff is being tracked, but then IRL can distract me from fixing the issue.

@oliwierus

Never used that mod before, but I think has no problem

Does your mod has conflict with "Vehicle Unbuncher"?

@Silver5word

Our exchange was a while ago, so I'm not sure I can remember everything. But, do consider using Better Train Boarding so that CIMs may have a shorter walking distance when using trains most of the time. More info on their side.

Cities Skylines is frustrating in that they have NO deterministic load order.

Therefore, regarding ANY question about load order, my suggestion is always to uninstall and then reinstall. This will put the mod at the end of the existing load order, which will solve most of the dependency problems (and maybe other strange stuff).

@Vectorial

Please reconsider my request to include a time-based despawn mechanism. If this mod only addresses a bug that only appears once every 15-60 minutes, this mod can potentially encompass so much more, as long vehicles consistently takes a long time to board (if passengers have to walk all the way to the end carriages—nearly 10 minutes in real time, not game time). I know you said you've introduced a distance-based mechanic, but after numerous tests, it does not seem to work.

On this topic, I have to ask, should this mod be loaded in a particular order or have any conflicts? I test-loaded it before TMPE and found that even short trains would get stuck during boarding.

I see. You're just kicking them inside the train/bus, not killing them off.

That helps. I'll download mod and see if i have any changes in simulation.

Thanks.

Now now, I am despawning the passengers the same way the game despawns them when they enter public transport aka "enter the vehicle despawn"

I am just adding another fallback action if vanilla failed to do that

---

Not sure if I have enabled the logs in the live version, but supposedly every time this happens, I print once to the log to help with debugging.

I never actively counted how frequent this occurs, but apparently when I notice unexplained traffic congestion (my playstyle is heavy public transport), it means this problem is happening. I would estimate to be once every 15-60 mins, and usually it would be stuck for a while before I noticed

If I understand correctly, you're despawning the passenger and that means he will not travel to the destination.

Can you make some statistics about how often that happens live in the game?

still working fine, this is a life saver lol

Not on topic for this side, but EBS does not have compatibility with ITP yet, so it is possible EBS and ITP disagrees on whether the trams should depart, and result in stucking.

But that's not the problem of this mod Public Transport Unstucker.

My trams are getting stuck even with this mod activated. I'm also using ITP and the Express Bus mod. If I disable Express Bus mod the problem goes away. Any ideas why this might be happening?

I think yes; they didn't change anything related to public transport, so no action needed

Does this work with the newest version?

Is a Cities: Skylines 1.16.0-f3 update coming for this mod?

since I see my name mentioned, I feel I need to clarify:


Based on what I can see for now, this mod supposedly only activates when 1) it detects a citizen is "stuck" or 2) when boarding cims have deviated from the station platform a certain distance.


My main points are 1) how does the mod detect a cim is "stuck" and 2) the distance despawn either does not work, or the threshold is set too far. (Cims boarding a 600m long train still spend nearly 10 minutes in real-time walking the length of a train)

Because of these factors, I stick by my original suggestion that implementing a timer would drastically simplify the mechanics and improve the reliability and applicability of this mod.

@Vectorial1024 thank you for the plane feature but seems like issue with planes on outside connection is not solved, can I give you my save game so you can check what is going on?

A lot of planes needs a lot of time to take off or to take load/passangers

@Shane_UK10

Should be possible (assuming that it is a runaway cim problem)

Perhaps after a few hours of running, the train got a runaway cim, and gets stuck. This mod fixes that.

Gotta try it first, I can't e sure of all the specific things

Does this mod prevent trains from getting stuck at the edge of the map? I almost always get to mid game and trains keep getting jammed spawning and despawning at the edge of the map. I delete a bunch of trains and it works for another few hours and then everything grinds to a halt. I sometimes get the same problem with road traffic at the edge of the map where vehicles appear and vanish in an endless loop until I switch on Despawning for a while or Reset all the trips.

@Darkangel,
there will always be a Karen somewhere in your city. And in every city.
In my city there is some entitle bixxx who always park on the railroad tracks. :)

Ahhhh... perhaps the wording are not too clear on my side, but yes, this mod only despawns those individual problematic cims, not the entire train itself.

ok i am about to now add this unstucker mod with your better train boarding mod as i saved my last game with a stuck train so i hope the only thing you are despawning are annoying runaway cims but not the whole train itself carrying 542 passengers that are all waiting for some annoying Karen complaining about the trains color i designated etc.

And btw, from what I understand, Silver5word's situation is that this mod functions correctly, but they find some parts quite annoying.

I can then start something new and see if I can improve this mod in any way that reduces the annoyance. (Usually there is a way; I just need to decide on the details to make it work on both sides, for me and for the user.)

This should work with better train boarding, by virtue that both mods are dealing with completely different things.

It is just a coincidence that both mods aim to solve 2 different problems that look similar, and also have 2 different effects that also look similar.

There are technical details, but for the laymen/to explain things quickly, this explanation should be enough.

& did this work better with better train boarding or does it conflict which is why peze is complaining cims are all going to the back of vehicle cause he has your other mod conflicting>???

WHO WANTS ANYTHING DESPAWNED???> The moment you do that as a solution to anything you are sending sims going to work to chaos and causing new ram issues with finding new pathways and if you keep despawning them then those sims will give up and move out of your city!