I legit thought Scorchlanders and Greenlanders were the same in terms of Lore. Just culturally different for stats and the fact that Scorchlanders are more in the desert geographically and Greenlanders were in the only not death green on the map. It never once crossed my mind that they had racism especially since the HN hates every not human race that has at one time or currently tried to genocide humans. Since the Western Hivers never attacked them they just fear them but have never attacked the Hive until possibly very recently causing the fog because of the new Pheonix's bs I assumed. I also have a sneaking suspicion the HN lost a lot of it's knowledge because of the Bug Master Theory and why things seem to be devolving for the HN and the issues with the hivers seem more feasibly the HN. This would easily cause the remaining leaders of the HN want to focus on control over actual religious beliefs as they are out casting the actual reincarnation.

I see. Sorry, you're right that I got a little defensive there. I feel there would be exceptions among Scorchlanders to the point where there would at least be some among the nation.

I label that quote as dishonest to the point where it is at least "doublethink" on their part. The HN employs slaves in the Holy Mines as much as the UC, but 'That's different!' Another example of this is their high level defensive walls and automated wells in their cities, which require high levels of research that come from ancient research books they will arrest you for possessing.

They are hypocrites, and that leads me to think their extremism is, in some cases, fake, and practiced for the sake of control more than actual religious belief.

I was entertaining your point man, no need to get defensive. My point is that not having Scorchlanders in the higher ranks of the Holy Nation is perfectly coherent from what is known in game, if I wasn't clear. Yes the Holy Nation don't have much any issue with Scorchlanders provided they're adherents to their religion. You don't like my Okran theories, cool, I'll concede that then. The thing is that the Scorchlanders, as per their own lore in the game and the quote you shared, don't really want to be down with the Holy Nation due to the disposition on life they have. Some do, sure, but that's the exception not the rule.

Aside: You may see it as dishonest, but I would argue that's imposing a cynicism that isn't necessarily there. It gives you interesting insight into the vision that the Holy Nation has of it's self and place with in their world; weather you agree or not. Nobody is the villain in their own vision after all.

As always, you do you man.

You just completely changed the point from your previous comment, Dutchman. What is it you're really trying to get at?

As an aside, that particular quote of yours is one of the best examples of the HN authority's dishonesty.

I mean...your race really determined your way to think/act? There could be exceptions plus, moll was a ex HN citizen

Okay lets go with that quote; doesn't that prove my point? Scorchlanders desire freedom, and the Holy Nation provides order and rigidity. One likes to drink, one doesn't. That's the reason you don't see the Scorchlanders in the Higher ranks of the Holy nation. It isn't that the Holy Nation is being racist to them, (source; Rebirth dialogue)

"Buy slaves?! We do not take slaves here in the holy lands! Such barbaric practises are not tolerated within the teachings of Okran. You cannot buy beings for your own selfish pursuits! A pure blood must take it upon himself never to take advantage of others, no matter what their misfortunes, no matter what their background!"

It's that Scorchlanders generally don't prefer the Order and rigid lifestyle that the Holy Nation offers. So to include the Scorchlanders at the Higher ranks of the faction that is the antithesis to the lifestyle is more the fan fiction wouldn't you say? Like I said, you do you bud.

That was pure fanfiction, chumbo. It introduces an aspect of racism in the Holy Nation that they simply don't exhibit - that being against their fellow humans.

The main basis of this mod is that Holy Nation treats them the same as Greenlanders in their interactions. So, the reason for their absence must be something else. To quote Scorchlanders' description from character creation:

"Scorchlanders tend to value personal freedoms above all else. They don't tend to get along well with rules, regulations and religions, and as a result have a reputation as social misfits and are often found in more adventurous professions. Despite this however, they are highly creative, making them natural-born traders and skilled weaponsmiths. Honest to a fault, laughing in the face of manners, moderation and anything sensible, they make loyal friends, passionate enemies, and are great fun to drink with."

I think this says all you need to know, without spelling it out for you.

I would just say that logically the Scorchlanders would be seen as Narko affiliated as a general rule. Night and darkeness are the realms of Narko, and the Scorchlanders make up great purportions of the Ninja clans; thieving sneaky ninjas.. You can even argue that the Okranites see the Scorchlanders as being punished by Okran by Scorching them and there lands. Green blessed; scorch cursed. I think most of the Ninja clans are run by female Scorchlanders too? Don't quote me on that one though. That and the Scorchlanders give off Dark Elf vibes to me. Although, as we see from dialogue in rebirth, the Holy Nation are civically minded to an extent in that all can come to know the light of Orkran through Rebirth. Just sayin. You do you.

FINALLY SOMEONE WITH A BRAIN. I hate how people keep things "mandela effect" by just making shit up and spreading miss information on the community

Realistically, I think it's a lot lower than 20-30%. Decimal spawning rates are weird.

I'd download if it were like 1-2%

For all the people complaining that the Holy Nation refers to their scorchlander as Darkened: My longest running kenshi save was a faction fighting the Holy Nation- about 150 hours vanilla, and around 300 or so more modded. Holy Nation just calls everyone darkened when you have a negative relationship with them- greenlanders, scorchlanders, etc. Theres special dialogue for nonhumans OFC, but as someone who has probably heard every single variant of "Purge the Darkened Whores of Narko", can confirm its not an in lore jab at scorchies

fuck yeah

personally the only reason i'm not downloading this is that sure, i've seen hn being friendly with scorchlanders, but i believe it's the scorchlanders who don't like them back, as was mentioned below about a lot of flotsam rebels being scorchlanders, one of the first comments does make a point, there are a lot of scorch in the uc so they must not dislike authority that much, but in the uc the only discrimination is against poverty, it's not good but some may think it's not inherent like your race would be, maybe they just don't feel like killing people on sight just because of what they are made of, or have issues subscribing to such a faith, but there will be no ripercussion whatsoever if a scorch wanders through hn cities, i've experienced it multiple times

not sure what happened to suicidal's modlist, if they're a troll it's a very weird one

@suicidalsquirrel probably "your kind" as in hobos

Thank you holy brother.

@suicidalsquirrel I've Heard blackened skin thief before but that was right after I was caught stealing. I'm curious did they say darkened harlot while you were running around as a female Scrochlander without a male.

Rebirth welcomes you @suicidalsquirrel

I issued you a challenge so you could eliminate doubts through the scientific process of cross-checking, but you'd rather exchange insults. Don't be too lazy or worried about being wrong. That's an important part of being "an adult."

I just made another wanderer, this time female scorchlander, and repeated the process of running between HN cities; this time I talked to shopkeepers. There was nothing different from greenlander interactions.

Go start another Reddit thread to get the opinions of the public and stop wasting my time with your BS.

just for the guy white knighting there, no, i don't have any dialogue mods, or in fact any that change the holy nation or it's responses.
it's far more likely you've just not done your research correctly.

you got remarkably lucky with those responses if that's all that was said to you in stack. 'we don't serve your kind here', as well as the reference to bad juju happened to me upon entering a shop.

as for you saying i didn't do any homework, 1) i am an adult, stop acting like you're a teacher... and 2) what part of 'made a new character who had not committed any crimes and ran to stack' didn't parse?

@suicidalsquirrel Uhhh, no. Either you've got a mod, or you're just making shit up. I've went through all the game's dialogue in the editor extensively over the years. No such dialogue exists. Like the author said, they only have flags to say racist shit for for same_race_as_me = 0, which means they hate anyone not in the "human" racial category (which includes Scorchlanders, who are firmly set in that category). They don't even use those slurs you've mentioned, I don't know where you're getting them from. Don't know if you're a troll or what. Either way, you're wrong. Stop badgering the author.

The Holy nation ARE racists and can go suck an egg. My issue is with people getting their facts wrong. The HN doesn't distinguish between the two main human subtypes. For your information, my team had all of 5 positive relations with them at the time (today), and no Holy Flames.
So, I rolled up a wanderer just for you, and sprinted between all of their cities at 0 rep. The results:

Stack: "Divine blessings, brother," x1; Bag check x1.
Bad Teeth: "Divine Blessings, brother," x1.
Random patrol: Gave me a ration and said us dudes have to stick together.
Blister Hill: "Divine blessings," x1

By the way, I saw no indication you did your homework assignment. Please do it.
If you're feeling ambitious, I'll give you bonus work. Open the FCS and find any line in the HN dialogues that references Scorchlanders. You'll find none, so the REAL extra credit is in finding things such as "same_race_as_me = 0" or the like, and then testing the scenarios in-game.

Report back with your findings.

Then you see wrong.
Do tell us what your faction rating was with them when you did so... were you carrying copies of the holy flame?

that you had fostered good relations had an effect. however, with 0 faction rating, HN members WILL discriminate based on colour.

fangirling over them won't change the facts.

stop making false claims to back up your mistakes.
the holy nation are racist. deal with it.

My entire team of scorchlanders has rolled through town with nothing worse than a "Divine blessings, brother/sister." They also don't speak of "bad juju," so I see four possibilities for your situation:
1: You have a mod running that specifically changed HN's disposition.
2: Your faction has poor relations with the HN.
3: You are paraphrasing AND misattributing something they said to a bandit.
4: You're just making that up.

they've said two of those things to a scorchlander character of mine who had literally run from the hub to stack without doing anything else, he was male, so the second was not said directly to him. No crimes had been committed. regardless, while they are not programmed to be violent on sight, they do very much discriminate based on colour.

@suicidalsquirrel, I have a homework assignment for you. Go on a crime spree with a team of only Greenlanders in the Holy Nation. Come back to us with what they say to you.

what do you mean 'do not discriminate' ??
Darkened ones, blackened harlots, bad juju.... these are all things that the holy nation attribute to scorchlanders... they definitely do discriminate... based on everything that is not white and male.

The thumbnail made me crack. Here's a Michelangelo.

Makes sense to me. Scorch landers make up a sizeable portion of the UC's military/police/nobility, so obviously not ALL Scorch landers are averse to authority. Plus a sizeable portion of the Flotsam ninjas/refugees are Scorch landers, so they must have lived in the Holy Nation for awhile before they escaped, further backing up the idea the Holy Nation tolerates them (though I'd imagine they'd be extra vulnerable to their witch hunts due to their rebellious nature). Thank you :D

True dat.

There's plenty to hold against the Holy Nation, but their stance on scorchlanders isn't one of them. lol

you a real homie for pointing this out, I did not know that scorch landers were ok in the holy lands,

lmao the first sub post was mine, the devs have literally said the two sub-races aren't differentiated in in-game interactions and people jus make shit up anyways. ur doing okran's work here my man

@MortalFolly, The reason you were attacked had nothing to do with scorchlanders. It could have been any number of other "offenses" you committed, but there is nothing coded in the game to have the faction react to them.

They do hate scorchlanders - they believe they worship narko Why you get openly attacked with an rng to get rekt by them lol

Empire
YOU MOTHAFUCKA

Thanks for the award, Lmao.

lmao, everyone know holy nation hates non-human and robots but somehow it never occur to me there was no scorchlander when they are human too, thanks for this