Has anyone tried this in RimWorld 1.4?

Does this still work for 1.4?

1.4?

@LAJ-47FC9 (Liara) Fun fact: THE FILES ARE STILL THERE. THEY ARE JUST DISABLED IN NORMAL GAMEPLAY.

WHICH IS PRETTY WEIRD. I don't really get it, honestly. But, other than that, I don't think anything will exactly go wrong - these are patches, correct?

All of these changes... Are reasonable.

Something you might like to be aware of: as of the latest update for Vanilla Weapons Expanded, the tools have actually been removed. Don't know if that'll affect things in this mod, but I thought it might be nice to know.

Would it be possible to look into rebalancing the bins of VFE? It'd be great if they'd require to be emptied by cleaners.

It would be nice to give the AC unit some heat output, so it doesn't remove temperature management from base design entirely; Maybe keep the spirit of the original item by having it produce slightly less heat than 2 coolers would at the cost of slightly more power than 2 coolers would.

Vanilla Factions Expanded - Medieval and Vanilla Armour Expanded have a bit of an issue that it'd be great if this mod fixed.

Medieval adds the 'light plate helmet,' which has a whopping -4.0 shooting accuracy citing it 'slightly restrict[ing] the wearer's field of vision.' Except it's an open-front helmet.

Armour adds the 'plate helmet' which has a paltry -0.1 shooting accuracy and no such mention. They both otherwise have the exact same stats except Armour's plate helmet covers the eyes, nose, and jaw (as it should).

The issue is that it seems the two items have their shooting accuracy backwards. Armour's plate helmet should have the -4.0 shooting accuracy and Medieval's light plate helmet shouldn't have any.

Is it possible to nerf the alliance bonuses of VFE:Classical? Ideally including a limit on the "I can recruit hundreds of pawns for free" capstone.

Honestly agree with most of these changes. With the crossbow change, I feel like it might have been nerfed a bit hard. Additionally, the ranged shield belt is extremely overpowered in my opinion, and should have quite a bit less recharge (or something else to nerf it).

Hey OrangeRaven!

Thanks a lot for the feedback here. We are currently looking into making a full sweep through all the VE mods, rebalancing almost everything. I'd like to take most of your ideas on board, if that's okay.

Any thoughts on nerfing the Chiton melee weapons? I love the faster attack speed, but they end up having DPSs that exceed Plasteel, and even compete with lower quality Monoswords, while being *much* easier to come across. I'd think making them somewhat lower damage, and/or more rare/valuable, would go a long way toward balancing out the attack speed bonus. Thanks for the cool mod, tho!

Considered working with the author of this?: https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2549563929

Thank you for the rebalance.

Quick question, should this mod be loaded before or after the Vanilla Expanded mods in the mod list?

Hello! I like this because I love VE (most of it) but I always thought things were a little TOO easy when used.

I'm doing a new game now where I'm slowing adding in mods that I actually use (as opposed to just throwing all 300+ mods in there and hoping for the best).

Does this mod REQUIRE any of the VE mods to work?

For example: I'm adding in Vanilla Apparel Expanded and want to use your mod to modify the neolithic clothing, do I need all the other VE mods for this mod to work properly?

Thanks!!

2/ realistic ranges. With their paltry range in the 20ies, with your option, you'd get to shoot one super accurate shot with a crossbow, but 2 or 3 equally accurate ones *in average* with a bow. Also the longer you play, the less accuracy remains a relevant concern, contrary to range or AP, even more so if you have access to average to good crafters.

So I can't object to anything you've said, because it's 100% true in RL, but I believe sometimes flawed game design needs to be mended even at the cost of "realism" or fall off the cliff into oblivion, which is why I suggested to give the crossbows something unique that makes them able to compete with bows. They're hopelessly outmatched otherwise.

(2/2)

@ OptimusPrimordial :

I agree with you about crossbows in RL not having more AP than bows. Barring the facilitated training that you've also mentioned, they appear to me as inferior to bows in almost every other aspect : production cost, range, shots per minute and arguably even lethality.

However RW doesn't account for :

1/ any "easy of use or train in" factor. In this game, crossbows require extra research instead (2 for heavy ones) that bows don't need. As tribals, I start with recurve bows and I'm 1 research away from Great bows. By the time I get there, with the blessing of Cassandra's near constant raids, my pawns quickly learn how to properly use at least the recurve bow (and they're good weapons). My better shooters can snipe some mechanoids with their Great bows.

(1/2)

Rimsenal has smart guns with a built in accuracy buff. I propose adding the same to the crossbows since the historical advantage of the crossbow was never about power or penetration but not needing years of training normal bows demanded. This would let them fill that niche of giving low skill pawns the ability to shoot straight.

Just to confirm my previous comment with some further feedback after playing with your mod for several days, I've removed all crossbows from my pawns, since with less AP, almost twice less range and higher recharge time than some of my (higher quality) bows, they're basically useless to me.

Given how expensive they are to research and produce compared to bows, I believe 50/60 AP would be a nice soft spot for crossbows to keep some on-the-field value. Not necessary "realistic" but better than having to outright ignore them, even if I also see the need to keep their firepower modulated by what more modern weapons can deliver.

I could see crossbows (especially heavy) to be essential and near required tools against early mechanoids encounters for tribal/medieval colonies, for example. There are always uranium maces, but with crossbows some of my ranged could also join in the fun.

As always, thank you for your consideration and work on the mod.

Any chance you could nerf or remove the ranged shield belt from Vanilla Apparel Expanded - Accessories? It does look really OP, having ranged pawns being able to wear a nearly full shield belt.

@OrangeRaven I'm not a fan of nerfs myself. I typically make things harder if I have something easier. Though your point of accumulated bonuses is a fair accessment for which I can see the need for reductions. I also use combat extended so many combat related changes or aids I typically don't notice as everything is already very deadly.

oh and also outposts are just incredibly powerful and easy to make (unless they were nerfed from when they were launched, i just remember them being super strong on release)

Last time I played Apparel Expanded the hardhat had a ridiculously high blunt armor value, easily way higher than cataphract helmets, could you perhaps tone that value down while still keeping it a good cheaper option for blunt head protection? it should be good, but not far and above everything else that's way more advanced and expensive

also I remember jumpsuits and overalls being by far the best choice for clothing because of their 1. high defence 2. ease of maintaining and crafting and 3. stat bonuses, while i think 2 and 3 are fine I think they could use a slight nerf to their armor values.

also this reddit post of a spreadsheet of the VAE items has some good conclusions in the comments, some of which i noticed myself (like the inferiority or military clothes for actual combat pawns):

https://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorld/comments/jxfc21/spreadsheet_of_rimworld_vanilla_apparel_extended/

I believe the hearth from Vanilla Factions Expanded - Vikings deserves a nerf: compared to a vanilla campfire, it puts out 150% of the heat for 30% of the fuel consumption, and compared to a vanilla torch, a 50% greater light radius for 50% greater fuel consumption.

HugsLib log [gist.github.com]. Relevant snippet begins at line 2001.

Looking at the mod, it looks like the VFE production patch is looking instead for the presence of VFE medical. I have only the latter, not the former.

@OrangeRaven Thank you for the update!

The fixes look good, except maybe the crossbow as you said. In my current game, I equipped one pawn with one for the first time ever. I usually just go with bows, since IMO range trumps any couple of extra damage points, but in this case I thought a case could be made about trading high armour pen for shorter range, putting the pawn in danger.

I admit the armour penetration was outright silly (even more modern weapons couldn't match it), but if the downgrade is much too substantial (I haven't played since your update), I'm back to square one regarding crossbows : useless compared to bows.

You definitely do not have an easy task. Mad props to you for even trying.

Finally, I can relate about VE work clothes being OP. I never use them, even if I can find them. First, they take precious space in my stockpiles since no traders seem to buy them back, and second, to take just one example, the building jacket has 80% armour (blunt). Excuse me ?

@Geronimo Most of the balance issues come from using multiple VE mods. For example for work speed you can combine:
- Work clothes from VAE
- Tools from VWE
- Large production tables from VFE - Production
- Cabinets from VFE - Production
- Accessories from VAE - Accessories
- etc.

leading to huge bonuses in the end. I'm not sure it was intended in the original design.

Update:

- VFE - Classical: Large passive cooler cannot go below 12°C
- VFE - Core: Reduced fuel consumption rate and heat output of stone campfire
- VWE - Core: Reduced armor penetration of crossbow
- VFE - Medieval: Increased range of heavy crossbow, reduced damage and armor penetration
- VFE - Medieval: Increased weight of claymore and heavy mace
- VFE - Medical: Removed cleanliness malus of surgical table
- VFE - Medical: Increased construction cost of research counter
- VFE - Production: Reduced work speed bonuses of large tables
- VFE - Production: Reduced work speed bonus of electric stone cutter table

Thanks @Karmapowered and @OptimusPrimordial. I implemented the changes you proposed. I'm not very happy with the brutal nerf I applied to the crossbows though as it makes them really bad -- will try to find a way to make them more useful in the future.

@^7p^0o^1i Will look into it, I did not start working on ranged weapons

The automatic pistol from VWE Quickdraw needs a nerf

that's because you don't pay attention

As a person who often finds the vfe content too "balanced" at max difficulty. I really wonder what kind of insanity you play with to have this problem.

Hello,

Lets prevent pawns from arriving or being assigned to you with royal jelly addictions. They just explode into insectoids... kinda makes them worthless and dangerous lol

What would be your take on the "surgical table" of the VFE - Medical Module mod ?

As it stands, it seems to be just killing my pawns off with increased risks of infections compared to a regular bed, so I basically never use it. If someone really wanted to butcher prisoners for example, a sleeping spot would work just as well and be a cheaper alternative.

There is a patch that removes the cleanliness debuff. Does that seem in line with the other changes you've done so far ? If yes, could it be included in your mod ?

Please take a look at the crossbow's 66% armour penetration and the heavy crossbow from VE Medieval with its 86% armour penetration.

I like what you're doing here. Too many unbalanced items make me actually not want to use the mod they originate from. Hopefully I'll be able to give them a second look now.

Thank you for sharing the result of your work with us. Thumbs up.

@Lurmey: Yes I agree. It's one of the armor that I plan to buff. I have all the stats here [github.com]. Still not sure about the new stats though.

The one thing that always annoyed me about Vanilla Armour Expanded is that Trooper Armour, despite being a spacer-level technology and having much higher production requirements than the Advanced Vest, has significantly worse protection than said vest. Sure, the vest only covers the torso, but a Plasteel Advanced Vest has roughly 115% sharp armour compared to the Trooper Armour's measly 65%...

Seems incredibly unfair for the trooper armour imo. I want to be able to use it but if I do, I'm putting all my soldiers at much greater risk for a couple minor stat boosts.

In fact, these mfkers made the Spacer-level Trooper Armour *EQUAL* in sharp protection values to literally the first armour item you can make at tribal level, the wooden armour. How bs is that?

- VFE: Removed component cost for street lamp
- VFE - Vikings: Reduced cold insulation of armors, capes and coats
- VAE Armour: Added/increased move speed maluses to various armours
- VAE Apparel: Reduced work bonuses for work outfits
- VAE Apparel: Reduced insulation for pelt coat, tribal apparel
- VAE Apparel: Slightly reduced armor of Jeans, Jumpsuit

VE is nice but the gimmicky bonuses are indeed a bit lame. Thanks for this mod. Well balanced this way while not taking away the usefulness of the items.

Sound great, thanks for making this mod and even listening to feedback! :)

@5katz I think you are right regarding the street lamp. I'll remove the increase in cost but keep the increased consumption in the next release.

I agree on all of these except for the street lamp, since even basegame sunlamps do not need components to be built. Charging components for it means a standard lamp is always more viable

@alexis while the tools dont appeal too useful with just VE they truly shine in combination with Simple Sidearms where the pawn will attempt equip the best tool for the job

@PeasantUnit I do, more specifically for furniture and ranged weapons

Regarding the tools - yes I did not bother with them when I had to manually assign it to the pawn. On the contrary if you are using a sidearm mod that makes it easy to switch weapons, they just become huge work bonuses for a very small investment

Nice mod. I like most of these changes. I did raise the pickaxe and axe work speed up to 15% from 8%.

@Alexis Popcorn It's useful with mods that allow weapon switching, like simple sidearms or use your tools.

I wonder why would someone even bother to craft an scalpel? usually ppl tend to equip pawns with regular weapons. Is its tend quality bonus even significant?

Thank you man! Do you plan on adding to this?