I appreciate it Redfrog, my friends and I will continue using this mod until vanilla is fixed to be less braindead ;)

also realism wise you are right that local effects would make more sense over the global effect of getting money from the enemies income, but game play wise i think income is the only thing that will make raiding worth the time investment, so any local effect is just going to be a probably not that impactful (but probably pretty annoying when used against the player) bonus on top of the income which im not changing.

i use recruit defeated legendary lord so ive never had to raid for get a LL back for confed, and in 90% of circumstance making a rebellion will just make you have to kill the rebellion so you can get the settlement they are sieginng ,i could up the local effects, but i think its primarily going to be more annoying for the player then useful against the AI. Truthfully I also just dont really want to do all those table edits, also i think the sacking is for your faction the same as when you occupy, i think you get the -30 on other settlements in the province and that one if you take it. Which is slightly weird but i think that is how its intended to work

It's useful to start rebellions in order to revive major factions to confederate with. I noticed that sacking settlements seem to have zero effect on public order for some reason, must be a bug in vanilla.

Spreading or removing corruption depending on what your faction favors is always a very useful thing you get bonuses or penalties for. A +3 or -3 corruption per turn would probably be impactful enough, especially if combined with additional local effects like -60 or so growth and -20 control. I just think more local effects would make sense compared to global factionwide effects. Keep in mind that raiding still does -5 growth and public order even with this mod enabled. No harm in boosting them :)

in general i dont find corruption spreading/removing to be a mechanic really worth caring about, certainly not enough to be wasting army turns on it, it wouldnt make raiding a worth while use of time unless it also gives the amount of money in this mod imo, also the AI doesnt get direct bonus to PO but because it has money and growth cheats it spams buildings and characters that give it lots of excess PO most of the time, its almost always too slow to try and get rebellions to try and disrupt the AI and also it doesnt generally care if you do because it will just kill the army or the army will besiege the settlement and now you have to fight them anyway get the settlement.
As for the AI raiding you i kind of like that you have to deal with it, and its not normally hard to do because they cant run away like they do in vanilla and they are exhausted

Well, it affects the player when the AI decides to raid us. Also, I think the AI no longer gets public order bonuses on higher difficulties, and the player only gets a public order debuff...? Being able to spread/remove corruption depending on your faction preference, with the raiding stance, would make the stance a lot more impactful too. I just feel like the effects of raiding should have a greater effect on the local scale rather than factionwide. Especially when you can confederate a faction that's getting raided in a region that has expensive buildings, and the raiding instantly bankrupts your treasury in 1 turn :)

i think SFO does this, but the problem with that kind of stuff is the AI doesnt really care, it cheats so much removing its growth or control doesnt do much for you, id honestly rather it not be possible to bankrupt the AI with this but thats not possible while still letting raiding give the player enough money to make it a decent use of time

For some reason CA thinks it makes sense for raiding stance to do -5 growth and public order. ;( It would be nice if raiding had more impactful effects on the local region, instead of on the global factionwide treasury, but there's no mod that does this at the moment... Maybe something like -60 growth, -30 control, +2 or -2 corruption when raiding? That would make raiding stance more impactful for the region it's happening in without causing a global economic crisis :)

Combining this with Shadow Rifts mod and and a visit to chaos dwarf capital and you can forget your money troubles.

haha alright fair enough thanks anyway

I don't actually think i could make raiding stance non attrition immune since stances are hard coded and dont think thats something i could do with scripts, i also dont really want to since some factions only have raiding stance as a way to gain attrition immunity and its going to screw them if it doesn't give it anymore

Im not making extra versions for different values as it becomes a pain to maintain them all and i dont want to put the effort in to learn how to set up MCT currently.

I believe their is already mods to increase trade income, i know you cant just crank trade income bonus if you want it to behave sensibly since that only affects the tariff part and not the resources part. and i don't actually know where the data base entry or entries are for trade income, only the ones that effect how trade agreements are weighted in diplomacy and i dont wanna go digging for them. Im not even playing currently and im somewhat burnt out on modding from making another mod

great mod, much appreciated and i have some notes

-can you make raiding non-attrition immune since in this game 'attrition' is people mutating from chaos corruption or turning into undead, so not exactly something you can recover from simply because you're stealing the enemy's rations

-can you make a version of this that's halfway between this and vanilla, or make it MCT configurable?

-can you also make a mod that increases trade income? seems like something you'd know how to do and would go well with this + the 0 background income mod

@Dizzy loeuy
I reccommend the "March and naval stance cost change" for that.
It greatly increases the costs of the march stance so you basically only start profiting from it one turn later.
As a result you can't instantly force march away from every threat on a whim, but instead have to commit to and plan for doing it. It also results in more consistent AI movements.
It also works great together with this mod.
The vanilla AI basically has ADHD. It wants to raid and provoke you, but then instantly runs away in force march. Not anymore.

After playing for 20 hours or so with it, I can say that I consider this very well balanced.
Raiding someone feels like its worth it and actually hurting your enemy.
And being raided is something any proper economy can deal with for a while, but surely wants to stop as soon as possible.
Entering raiding stance is now requiring actual commitment and is worth doing.
And if someone decides to bite off more than they could chew, you can punish them properly.

The no retreat things is brilliant.

Last movement I'm looking for is one where MARCH stance is just f'ing removed! The AI doesn't use it well and I can always catch them flat footed and wipe them out because they overuse it.

Thank you very much!

It was a hell of a lot harder to do then i thought it was gunna be. which is why their was a 4 day gap between your comment and me actually putting out the update

Making it unable to retreat is actually kinda genius.
It was always odd how you could just retreat out of the drawbacks of the stance you chose.

Updated to make raiding stance no longer allow retreating similar to force march, making its vigour debuff actually matter as you cant just retreat out of raiding stance. I also made raiding stance cheaper to enter as now that theirs a serious consequence for being attacked while in it.

Late game, every other source of income is already op anyway.
In vanilla raiding might be the only source of income that actually makes you lose money.
I would however recommend the "March and Naval Stance Cost Change" mod, because it fixes the problem that some enemy armies will just play the "raid-forcemarch" game with you running after them like an idiot for eternity.
Trying to catch AI armies in a vast province already sucks in vanilla.
It probably hell if they can rob so much money doing it.
Which gives me an idea........
If raiding is so impactful now, one could argue that it shouldn't be possible on the run.
Maybe make it cost 90% of movement or so?
Big investement, big reward.
That way we can have our powerful raids, but don't run after fleeing raid armies as much.

late game sure, like i said i wanted a tighter spread but i couldn't do it with what i could change, but being able to get 7k out of a maxed t5 province i dont see as a huge problem because generally when the AI has got to T5 for you to raid it you probably arent hurting for money, and you can abuse this im sure, if you can get a 20 stack for very little money like zombies in vamp counts you can probably farm money out of this. but thats a trade i personally dont mind in return for raiding to be actually be useful as a source of income, and to have all those +raiding income skills and traits to actually do something. If you think that trade isnt worth it your free to just play vanilla or change the values to something more to your liking

Don't you think this is a little mental?

in theory you might be able to do that with scripts adding a effect to the army that increases raiding income, and you just apply a new effect every turn with a higher raiding income, but my knowledge of mod scripting is incredibly limited and currently i dont have the desire to figure it out

The best way, in my opinion, would be to have the raiding ramp up over 3 turns or so.
That way its reasonable to react to it but can also not be ignored for long periods of time.
Weither thats even possible is obviously something I don't know.

If the AI does start raiding you then yeah you have to deal with it, because it will eat your income, but if you have a t5 maxed out settlement killing one beast man army shouldn't be a problem, but you can get into situations where several AI armies raid a different province and it starts bankrupting you. Like i said id rather narrow the income difference but the formula doesn't really allow for it because its just the summed cost of all buildings to a power * a number. Its possible if that's a serious problem that keeps happening ill see what i can do about it.

what does it do to the raided region income ?
T5 gives bewteen 3k and 5k, increased by super capitals like ACoQ, Naggarond, Reikland.
Having a income -7.6k just because a goodamn beastman spawned is terrible