Excellent, thanks for the response. Best of luck to you

Hello, Thank you!

Charging speed is set as running speed, so there isn't a difference between running and charging.

Target acquiring means the distance where the models start moving towards individual models of the enemy, and i'v set this equal with the 'charge pose' (like lowering lances) so the two are correlated.

Similarly with this: "Target acquiring – as charge pose distance."

Hey @mr.napop. great mod.

I've been wondering about one segment of the description of this mod. I've read and reread it but can't make sense of it: "Charge Speed – Same as modded running speed, sprinting right before combat isn't a good idea, and horses gallop at the same speed as a group, indifferent to any battle phase unfolding. Monsters speed is as their vanilla charging speed."

Can you clarify this?

Hey thanks, never encountered this issue nor did I manage to replicate it in tests, are you using other mods like AI general or Counter attack? where they in locked groups? perhaps you pressed shift for successive movement orders? if you can replicate it please elaborate or send a photo/video of it.

Regarding the velocity, I'v attended to this issue in my Deadly Attack Dynamics mod that enhances projectile velocities.

My mods address different aspects and are separate to keep modularity but are designed to work together as they complement each other like in the scenario you cleverly pointed out. So check it out, especially if you like dragons as with it their attack is also realistic and not only their movement.

Great mod, but i found an issue, though it may be because i have an old pc :) Very "gliding" flying units in vanilla become so fast they drop orders and get extremely slow - or sometimes stop - for a few seconds. Slow as turning artillery, kinda :) As of now i experienced this with great eagles from wood elves and morathi on pegasus, expecially painful to waste enemy ammo :P
I have no idea what can be done about it so i'm just reporting.

Another small question is that projectile velocities might be too slow now, i think ai cannot handle these speeds very well, even with guns or auto-aim wood elf heroes. But it is fun to dodge arrows with an hydra :))

I need to say i really love diving with dragons now! They feel absolutely great! No more getting pinned down by 3 dwarves like vanilla :D I think everyone should experience this at least once in life :D

Yep now its about 1,300 for cavalry. on second thoughts ill maintain the jumping reduction for realism purposes, as horses wouldn't jump into danger such as crowds, unlike humans diving into danger such as modding.

Check discord Da Modding Den channel if you're interested in modding, and if you wish to chat i'm there by the same name.

The getting up delay in deadlier engagements is to enhance damage done since you can't damage knocked models, and it isn't a problem if your using this since the horse model is now heavy enough to push/knock individual models out of the way.

If you're looking to buff bracing check Impactful bracing or the mini mod .

Good to know man, I saw that bracing mod but it has some unwanted interplay with charging that I'd rather avoid, I might try the mini mod if only to feel better about increasing impact damage without allowing excessive cycle charging...

I've since taken a poke within the mod so I'm hoping your mass changes fixed it, it was almost certainly that as before your tweaks the specific cav I was using (knights of the realm) had their mass nerfed from 1000ish to 700ish, which was probably what was wrong!

I don't think it was bracing, as it was happening when the infantry unit was countercharging (for some reason( my cavalry), so couldn't possibly be braced :)

If nothing else you've finally encouraged me to dive off the deep end into TW modding :D

Hello friend,

I'v run multiple testings, the issue you're referring to is just the vanilla bracing dynamic, where it would stop the first non jumping cavalry from penetrating the braced model, and only be pushed by the second hitting model. Vanilla charging is very fast so it's hard to see, but the first horse stops as you described given no jumping attack was performed.

Since i'v reduced all non-monsters jumping, it affected this dynamic, so I'v reinstated jumping attack for cavalry to resume this potential overcoming of the bracing.

I'v also tweaked mass for greater scaling difference, and fixed deceleration overlooked required edit which could have caused attacking bugs, so thank you.

yep, tried again without agile models, it's 100% causing the wet noodle cavalry issue sadly. I'll stop spamming your comments now haha

reading further it looks like cavalry mass was increased in WH3, so that makes what I was saying below seem like we might be on the right track :) quote below, I thought the different mass per cav type was interesting, if not necessarily realistic to their size. it would at least make cavalry impact easier to balance?

"we’ve made changes to cavalry mass that will hopefully push us nearer to that nice sweet spot where charges feel impactful, but can still be countered in the right circumstances.

Generally we’ve attempted to break cavalry up into certain mass brackets like Light Cavalry, Regular Cavalry, Heavy/Shock Cavalry, Monstrous Cavalry and Character Cavalry, so that the experience and interactions between Cavalry and other units are more readable and consistent across the board."

minor addition, but the below quote from the wh2 cavalry beta post makes sense as to why the get-up delay was there, its actually specifically to allow cavalry to disengage

"The knockdown getting up random delays have been increased as cavalry would often not have a window to disengage cleanly as infantry would get up inside the cavalry unit and disrupt disengaging when cycle charging.
The delay has been changed from 0.7-2 seconds to 1-2.7 seconds."

funny thing is, this makes the whole spearmen issue I talk about below even worse, as cavalry can just turn and bugger off before they even get a chance to deal damage at all - at best they get reduced damage from charging cavalry...

but the disengaging thing might have a point. getting your cav partially tangled up in infantry is frustrating with TW pathfinding! so it might be worth reinstating the get-up delay?

now, a halfway solution might be to simply add more mass (100%) to the cav and monsters like DCC does, but without the impact damage increase. So they satisfyingly knock the buggers over, but then have to stick around to deal damage, when they can get hit back.

This would work, but kinda suck, because a) it doesn’t make logical sense, b) it makes the charge take forever to have its impact, and c) it just looks dumb.

What I would love to do is try and figure out the charge defence impact problem, so cav/monsters would take substantial impact damage charging a braced charge defence unit head on.

Then we could not only increase mass for satisfying charges, but also damage, as the new power of cav/monsters is countered by the presence of charge defence in (as far as I'm aware) nearly all factions :)

5/5

They work on the infantry standing up and making attacks to do damage, and the cav making attacks to do damage, because the impact does very little on the cav side, and as far as I can tell, nothing on the spear side (please correct me if wrong, I'd love to buff spear impact damage for units when braced/charging the front, it would solve this problem in a stroke)

So the problem with making logical cav/monster impacts with satisfying impact damage (yeeting aside) is…the infantry don’t get enough of a chance to strike back. The impact does the damage, many get knocked over, the cav/monsters can get away (this is EVEN worse with your agile models mod, annoyingly!)

4/5

the current round of testing was done on empire spearmen with bretonnian knights of the realm, with ogre cav as the monstrous testers. the spearmen were rear charged with cav with your mod on to double check, it isnt the charge defence (not that it should be?) and wasnt bracing, as the units in later testing have started charging my cav once I approach....with spearmen. not entirely sure why their logic broke too, but broke TW ai isnt new...

my current working theory is that the yeeting changes also change what mass level is needed for a satisfying impact, as when I have played with ALL the mods above on, including deadly cav charges, no yeeting etc - impacts have been glorious.

too glorious sadly, and herein lies the problem. TW cav/large vs charge defence infantry mechanics…suck.


3/5

now, as a rule I do like no more yeeted units in concept, but in practice I find with or without your mods it seems to turn infantry units into a tarpit - its almost like without the yeeting, the mass of the cav/monster just isn't enough to carry it as far as makes logical sense, they knock down a few dudes on the front row and then just...stop. like that absorbed ALL their momentum.

If the units were more tightly packed I might believe it, but theres no tight shieldwall formations in the game, so....no

I tried vanilla, and (yeeting aside) the cav and monsters had a satisfying, logical impact distance.

I turned your mods back on, but not yeeted units and...it acted like yeeted units was still on. cav just sort of stopped like a limp noodle :)



2/5?

Ok! so. Had a bit of a play.

acceleration/turning feels a bit better now, and the units seem to have gotten their old move speeds back, so that's perfect

I have noticed a new issue though with cavalry, I'm not certain it's this mod specifically but I do think it is one of your mods having the issue (I've been playing with turning them on/off when testing)

so.

I've been doing testing with a few mods aside from the mods listed here on your page, of which I have all but immersive camera on. I also use no more yeeted units, and have been trying out the unit formations 2024 mod, and the various forms of the deadly cavalry charges mod.

I have removed the deadly cav and unit formations for these tests, and also because deadly cav revealed another serious issue with cav in the game to me which kinda sucks but I'll get on to that later.

1/5?

sounds interesting! I'll give it another shot :)

Hey man thank for the detailed comment.

You're right, I'v calculated all running speed to be as the charge speed as I thought the ratios would stay the same but they haven't.

Reverted back to vanilla running speed and non-giant charging speed as running speed, and also reduced turning and acceleration speed and fixed chariot miscalculation as they're defined as giants.

This, combined with the increased acceleration, running speed and ability to redirect motion feels pretty off/unrealistic, which I probably didn't notice last time as I was running dwarfs!

I think at this point the only real things I want from this mod are the mass changes (which help greatly with monstrous creature impacts) and 360 degree fire arc - I don't suppose you'd consider releasing those two as separate mods for user modularity?

2/2

Having come back to this and playing around with some new experiments, it seems a lot of changes are made to models speed, everything from orc warriors going from 31 to 39, to DE cold ones going from the high 60s to 100, which is a hell of a difference! especially considering they're really not supposed to be that fast, and the lizardman cold one cav are about 80...still faster than they should be but not quite as bad. but if I recall, the lizards are means to be faster than the DE versions as the DE have barding which is meant to slow them down - it's possible your calculations are off as they don't account for the different weight of materials, metal being rather heavy and all?

1/2

Mod revised

Ahh I see. That makes sense actually. I suppose getting skinks would be a good option because saurus are just so slow to get the job done ahaha. Thanks for the advice! Will definitely incorporate it more.

Ah right, I tested Deadlier Attack Dynamics again and wanted to ask you something about it, but I'll post it on the actual mod's page.

Thank you for your kind words!

I suggest following monsters with infantry behind them for support so the enemy infantry wont encircle them, either on the charge or soon after.

Oh I also use them sometimes! ^^

I say sometimes since I turn them off when I play big monster heavy factions. Because uh, I find that if Kroxigors are deep in Skaven lines it becomes quite difficult to keep them alive ahaha. Maybe I'm just bad tho xd

I quite like the mods that you make, and amazed at just how much of a difference it makes in battle. Cheers, man! You're awesome :>

Btw check my "Deadly Attack Dynamics" and "Deadlier Engagement Dynamics" mods for better impact dynamics.

Ahh I see. Yeah, it does feel a bit unrealistic to just break through the line of infantry and then still have enough charge to go through the other side, even as cavalry, and even if they're charging at a spear infantry that's braced (okay yeah that one's quite op xd)

Oh, the reason I said 'meh' is because before this they can send braced non-spear infantry flying, but if both mods are active, they just become, uh, stuck there at the front.

Thanks for the instructions though! I haven't really done any altering tables yet in this game before (still pretty new myself) so this'll be an interesting experience. Thank you for hearing me out!

Hello, Thank you!

Our mods alter the same table so are not compatible, and changing priority even in KMM doesn't work and my mod wins. I'v checked his mod, gotta say it makes chariots extremely fast and the enemy models almost weightless, so I won't make a submod for it.

It's quite easy to do though, download RPFM, copy both tables to excel, and compare them, or better yet just remove his affected entries from my mod so the two work together. I'm available on discord as well.

I wouldn't call the cavalry charge "meh" since you can easily take out 20-30% of the enemy in one charge, but its more realistic when you can't run down 50 men which are blocked together as the bodies collide, yet the first lines will suffer casualties.

Heyo! First of all, I love this mod so much. Really turns the 'sluggish orders' much more lively. Especially the flying units, like man, they're so fast now. I love it. And cavalry? They can now cycle charge better. And the archers don't have to reposition all the time which is great.

So uhm, I just wanted to ask/request if you (or if anyone that uses it knows how to mod) if it's possible to make a submod for Knight Writer's "Return to Glory (Cavalry and Chariots)" (which btw, I highly recommend for those who love using cavalry and chariots like me). Because when I load the mods of you both (tried it in different priority order), it makes the cavalry charge meh. Basically I think it nullifies his mod's change to cavalry.

So yeah that's about it, just wanted to ask and request that of you, if possible. It's a bit of a selfish request since I want both his cavalry charge and your improvements to other units as well. Again, thanks for the awesome mod!

Thank you!

the responsiveness is indeed where this mod shines and alters the game to be way more fun to play.

Giving Huntsmen 360 arc only while stationary means removing their firing while moving attribute, which is included in their price and will upset the overall balance.

Archers / Huntsmen actually don't shoot longbows but use composite bows, albeit quite large unlike Turkish / Mongolian ones, which reduces the length while maintaining the draw weight, giving more control over the bow.

If you've shot composite or regular bows or seen Lars Andersen (who prob has some elven roots) its possible to shoot at different angles and motion with decent accuracy, it's not at all implausible.

I swear that one time i saw crossbowmen box shoot at different surrounding enemy targets, each to the closest in a true 360 arc, but never seen it since.

following up on @hateDLC's comment, I can see how that would feel wrong. humans running while firing a longbow backwards is just straight up a bit silly, elves maybe but I can see how that feels wrong. Giving them 360 arc while stationary only would fit better, though understandable if that isn't possible.

Other than that, I greatly enjoy this mod! the game and units finally feel like they listen to my damned orders at pace, and aren't gently strolling around when about to be run down by cavalry!

I do also love the 360 ranged arc on stationary units like dwarf crossbowmen, they feel much more realistic to use, as there's nothing stopping the unit rotating each dwarf on the spot to fire!

Hey man, thanks for the comment. I don't think it makes much difference, foot models must turn anyway on their axis, they just don't have to arrange in a formation to shoot. If you arrange them in a box formation in vanilla the formation changing would also be minimal, and if anything, the "fire whilst moving" units should get it, as they are presumingly more agile to begin with.

Cavalry don't turn and instead shoot backwards, but horse archers from history do that. Having said that, perhaps I'll lower the accuracy of ranged cavalry.

"Deadly Attack Dynamics" reduces ranged missiles accuracy while enhancing damage and reload times, but with more shield protection, so it balances things out, try it.

sisters are better than any other pure ranged unit (aside from walkers and sea guard), so its just an economical question of affordability.

And regarding this question, I recommend trying out a unit cap mod like the insane "Population mechanics", or "unit caps for all".

The 360 firing arc on everything is a bit OP. It does make logical sense for a stationary infantry unit, but like 360 Outriders with grenade launchers are completely busted, or Empire huntsmen doing legolas moves like top-tier elven skirmishers. Maybe restrict the change to infantry units without "fire whilst moving" or make the shooting changes a separate mod? Even like 360 sisters of avelorn would kind of negate any niche for other elven archers etc.

Compatibility issues are bound to happen, and they do when mods alter the same tables and rows. Pierce's Better Sieges alter many tables, not all are incompatible with my mod (the siege turn decreases), since my mods don't touch those.

Checking all mods compatibility is hard, but doable, and thanks to your comment, I discovered some more incompatibilities, and thus created sub mods to make the mods compatible. You still need his mod for things to work properly.

Better Fatigue is compatible, Attack speed and splash are not compatible, but Deadly Attack Dynamics alter the attack speed.

Logichammer probably isn't compatible.

CBE and Standard Bearers sub mods work with my mod, just subscribe to all of them.

You can check the differences by disabling your original mods and activating mine in the mods manager and try it in custom battles.

> Any comment/insight/request/bug is HIGHLY appreciated and welcome.
That's actually my overall commment, i'm very interested in your changes and ideas, but for now incompatibility issues with stuff like CBE, Banners mod and/or Better Sieges now caused me to opt out for our similar mods for now. I'm using your model-alignment one, because it seamingly do not interferes much with other stuff, Logichammer by scehr and Better Fatique by Pierce for rules, Attack Speed Boost and Splash for orcs/lizards/whatever one for, well, splash. I would've liked to try and replace them with your ones, at least to try out the differences, but again, compatibility -_- CBE, Banner one and Better Sieges are just too integral for my desired vision for this game.

> some can climb walls (Credit to Pierce's Better Sieges).
So, will it be incompatible with this mod?
Because i like other stuff (like siege turns decrease, changes to tower ranges...) it adds and your mod doesn't...

Also, i'm glad to see compatibility patches between your Deadly Attack Dynamics and CBE/Better Banner Whatevers... Do they work together, if i'm using both CBE and Banner Stuff?