Unsure if I can patch it on my end. That mod can recognize this mods spears very easily as they all have the tag "Spear" already. I've been slowly working on adding 1-2 range to this mod but its very hard to work it into all the various melee systems without slowing the game to a crawl. For example shift-a, exploration attacks, etc. Last I checked the polearms mod used an ability to emulate this

*polearm mod

will you add compatibility to the Glaive mod ?

@Tyrir @Emong Fixed! thanks for the heads up

The gaslight iklwa doesn't seem to actually be two-handed

away from my main pc, ill patch it tomorrow

MODERROR [Spears] - XRL.XmlException: Duplicate group name 'Items' at line 28


<population Name="Artifact 4R" Load="Merge">
<group Name="Items">
<object Weight="8" Number="1" Blueprint="Vibro Spear" />
</group>
<group Name="Items">
<object Weight="12" Number="1" Blueprint="Gaslight Iklwa" />
</group>
</population>

@StickyJo'sWildRide multiweapon fighting is still WIP. I wanted to keep the main version of the mod as durable to updates and compatible with other mods as possible. I am about halfway done with a fork of the mod adding multiweapon and +1 melee range to spears but I have no clue when itll be done

Great mod by the way, love the idea of spears being this dual/single weapon hybrid that let you use single or dual weapon fighting. I do have a few questions regarding how it all works, mechanically:

Since spears are one weapon that also count as a separate off-hand weapon, does that mean I can spec into both Single and Multi weapon fighting and utilize both skill sets at once?

Also, I noticed the spears have an 'Agility Cap' instead of a 'Strength Cap'. Does that mean that penetration scales off of Agility instead of Strength with these weapons? Or does that just mean that they can only get so much to-hit bonus from your Agility, equal to the cap?

@Alithsko Not yet, ill patch that in next update, thanks for the reminder.

@Mazrine Spieluhr ⚧ so I was working on this idea before spring molting dropped and trashed all my mods, as part of a cavalry skill tree where you could ride companions around in combat. That mod is on the bottom of my to do list sadly. I may add a charge skill or hidden modifier to spears in the meantime.

@BlearyEight solid suggestions, I'll add those in this mod's next update, whenever that is. The polyp spear will drop from junk dollars or young ivory.

@Captain Rubick fair enough. The primary reason I did not give spears +1 range is due to buggy behavior with attack targeting. I made them short blades due to their similar attack styles: jabs. I would be very interested in your version of a spear mod, lmk if you would like any assistance / advice in creating it.

First thoughts
1. Leave out the minimum range idea. Enemies tend to rush you down and it is frustrating to have a weapon with only 2-2 range rather than 1-2 range. Bows in fire emblem have this issue if you're familiar.

2. Knockback is a great idea for a spear mechanic. How about a sweep to knock back / knock prone for adjacent enemies allowing you to use your improved range?

3. Spears in a RPG function differently from spears in medieval warfare, they don't have a formation of other spears to work alongside meaning they fight more like a staff.

I love spears in all games, but I am not going to subscribe to this mod, as spears and polearms should have their own tree. They are definetely not short blades. Here is a suggestion: spears should have a minimum range of 1 square, they should knockback, could inflict heavy bleed or multiple pen on crit. Should have a skill similar to Lunge and Swipe.

Do these spears count as thrown blade weapons in the same way daggers secretly do?

I love this mod, would love for it to have a gaslight spear, would be so cool. Also, could there be some way of making spears benefit from charges? cause of all the weapons, spears make the most sense to benefit from charges, I can imagine a truekin legionaire character or mutant angel who uses wings to charge with the spear.

I have some ideas for atypical spears to add eventually: a sharpened polyp equivalent, a gaslight one, and a rhinox horn one. Also you could do the equivalent to how steel knives have variants like the butcher's knife, but with bidents and tridents.

I've had time to try it out and think about it. The only conceivable power creep (aside from the early-game boost due to having a two-hander to begin with) is that it trumps having two daggers normally. I understand why, too. Main-handing short blades is a hard sell that requires specific character synergies in order to justify. Oftentimes, you're better off using a long blade and stances alongside short blades because it's more flexible and you only lose out on the action cost bonus, pointed circle and hobble. Cleave stacking is feasible, but requires higher strength/agility than the former.

The thing that I was alluding to earlier about short swords would quite literally be a cross between a long blade and short blade; you could benefit from stances while still main-handing a short blade for the unique, if meager bonuses. The issue there, though, remains - you would need to blatantly buff the play style to justify using it over something else.

@ClevaEnGeanyus Melee late-game is still melee, it requires you to survive and reach your opponents. Its slightly behind multi-arms + axes and about equal to single weapon fighting vibro blade builds. A vibro spear is exactly on par with a vibro sword trading burst damage (sword penetration) and ability to use a shield for consistent damage (multi-hits and bleed stacks)

This is an incredibly appealing idea. While I haven't considered this *exactly*, it does remind me of my reservations on how and why a "short sword redux" could work. In any case, I would like some second opinions on balance. Hitting four times is a lot, but they are basically daggers, nonetheless... I'm okay with the early-game power creep in the dagger category, because that's how all two-handers work (they require less investment, basically). How does a spear late-game compare to other categories?

@Mid Favila I am in the middle of updating all my mods to spring molting rn. I can at least confirm that spears are all set as shortblades in xml. I'll do some testing and get back to you if I find anything.

Hey there, neat mod. I dunno if it's some kind of weird conflict, but in my game the only weapon added from this mod that's classed as a short blade is the Vibro Spear. The others are all considered cudgels.

But those fighters carried with them swords as well, and sword and shield is a combination fantastically suited to close combat; thus the threat of the sword impeded enemies from closing in when the spear overextended, and the spear could be thrown at an enemy while leaving a combatant with the sword and shield to defend themselves or capitalize on any disruption the spear caused (an option famously systematized and perfected by the Romans). Such a dynamic is impossible in Qud given the inventory and equipment slot systems, which neither allow for holding one weapon in a hand and another in a scabbard, nor necessitate it since full panoplies can be carried by your character and accessed at any moment.

In reality the decisive factor behind the use of one weapon or another was very often what could be worn alongside it. In pre-gunpowder warfare shields were a necessity, and so spears could only be employed single-handed, in which state they make for quite dubious close combat weapons — since the one grasping hand is the fulcrum of a very long shaft and the wrist alone can correct for deviations, such spears are not nearly as handy or responsive as polearms held in two hands, and are lethally useless should an opponent get within their measure.

That makes sense! Some variety is great and there's certainly no reason for everything to be your standard thrusting spear — I'd agree that glaives (and other weaponry like partisans and bills, for that matter) make some good sense for the niche you're filling.

I absolutely agree that Qud's design presents some major roadblocks to a realistic approach to weaponry. Reach is always difficult, and the biomechanics of carrying weapons also figures into the issue.

@Melanoc3tus Interesting! I created the sprites used in this mod by taking the blades of vanilla daggers and extending their handles. I could 100% see either re-branding the mod to 'glaives' or redrawing the spearheads to be more spear-like.

I am personally fond of the glaive/woldo as it was historically used in small-scale or unorganized warfare where a soldier would have enough room for slashing attacks. I think that Qud has an issue with presenting any type of polearm as all melee weapons have the same reach and mounted combat is absent.

This looks great, though to quibble the spear sprites are kinda weird — spearheads are typically foliate (leaf-shaped), to the point that leaf-shaped leaves are known as lanceolate (ie spear-shaped); a curved cutting blade on the end of a stick is worse for stabbing and you see those on cutting polearms like glaives and halberds, not spears.

For Single Weapon fighters that are too confident for shields. Thank you for making this.

Also, making the vibro spear have vibro penetration and another penetration on top of that really incentives this over the vibro dagger.

love me some spears

Being able to benefit from the single weapon penetration skill, and skills like Bloodletter and Jab, all at the same time, make spears a pretty vicious melee weapon choice, especially early game. Still, I can't complain about something being stronk. At the very least, it's nice to have a two-handed option for Short Blade specialists, particularly for my multi-armed characters that can use several two-handers at once.

Currently spears have no special synergy with multiweapon fighting,

Once I improve my harmony patching skills I will allow multiweapon fighting to provide spears with chances to attack multiple times depending on how many hands the spear is held in. This will conceivable allow a player to reach >4 attacks per turn for their primary-handed-spear if they invest into both multiweapon and single weapon fighting. Until this update releases, the recommended synergy between short blades and multiweapon fighting is simply equipping the maximum amount of short blades your hand/arm slots allow.

(2/2)

@FTP [[PYBRO]]] Gaming The spear counts as an offhand weapon for the purposes of jab. This means that ANY attack with a spear will strike twice.


There are no special rules or exceptions with spears and single weapon fighting either, but gaining additional attacks with a main hand weapon always benefit single weapon fighting more than multiweapon fighting.

The 'intended' playstyle is a short blade, single weapon fighting build, This build currently receives no benefit from multiweapon fighting.


(1/2)

So if you are doing single weapon fighting, do you still need to take multi weapon fighting to improve the jab chance of the spear? Does that work?

I may bump up the drop rate, its a vanilla issue unfortunately: all two handed weapons are typically twice as rare as the one handed equivalents. I just finished a spear only run after the balance patch, you can easily get an iron spear pre-red rock on surface snapjaws or get one while you go through red rock, nearly 100% of the time. Spears up to folded carbide are easily found at the stiltgrounds. For fullerite and up the best place to find them is ezra. I can confirm with both experience and through testing methods that spears have the same spawn rate as all other two handed weaponry though. I also might just add a calling/caste that starts with a spear to make early game easier.

Where can you find spears? I can't seem to get any at merchants or in drops at all

Spears in this mod are distinct from the polearms mod and only have 1 range. I personally don't plan on making a patch as I don't use that mod but I will link it if someone else does.

Can spears hit enemies from inside a force bubble? The description of the mutation says it allows projectiles through but I'm curious if the spear's reach will allow it to also hit through the barrier

add <part Name="acegiak_Reach" Length="1" /> for Polearm compability

a compatibility mod with Polearms would be great. idk how to make mods otherwise i'd do it myself ._.