The issue is that the Empire Gang bangs one at a time. If the units spaced out, it would work, but the current AI just masses one at a time. to which noone can hold out vs all them elites and level 8-9s with level 4-6 units just doesnt happen. I did get a win tho. I added a DEMO_unicon on my team. and then I could hold out lol.

I haven't touched this map for years so I can't really say how it plays out now.

My suggestion here would be try to help fellow AI team mates to capture new rooms when possible so you could get more land captured sooner.

I'm not entirely sure but this map has no restriction in it, aka everything is allowed and you can sell captured rooms and build the ones you need. You'd probably need to experiment here a bit with what works well but combination of traps and ritual should make the work trivial.

This map is just not possible, I tried tons of different ways, rushing never got past the sixth room and trying to turtle block them, they bomb the hell out of the wall block, also I tried traps in all the edges not enough to kill the level 8-9 and hero spam, even with 3 OTHER master AI on other teams.

I see. I suppose if I can take a look at your work I could provide some advice regarding visual structure of the map. With some practice, anyone can learn how to design visually appealing maps without much effort.

Scripting is not the problem as it requires little to no script, it is just a basic 1v1. What I do need help with is the look, as my attempts before just looked very.... Shit.

If you need help with scripting I can give you advice. Do note that some stuff currently is broken in Editor and can't be used yet, which means some ideas will have to wait until devs release a patch.

Well, I will continue to playtest it because it is a really great map, a diamond in the rough.
Though if you were willing, I have been working on an idea for a melee map with some asymmetrical warfare.

It's ok, I was a bit surprised that someone paid attention to such old work. I myself wasn't sure what to do about it since I was working on other maps instead. If devs will fix Editor, I will probably give this map some scripts for even better gameplay.

Sorry for giving you so much work with your map, just trying to help you balance it out in some way.

Updated to version 1.21.

Removed artifacts that were granting Empire Spirit Workers. Additional visual changes for prettier look.

I don't think they have spirit workers. I'll recheck and remove if there is any.

The problem of the Empire being able to stop my expansion north with spirit workers remains, from what I have gathered, they probably start with them, do they not?

You can actually build archive of your own by dedicating your starting sins. Then you can unlock an artifact which will give you gold. All you need to do is spend 1 sin on Archive and sell one of your claimed rooms.

Sadly in my latest attempt I didn't even get to the archives because my Workers were constantly blocked by afforementioned Spirit Workers, not to mention that the Empire had sold most of the rooms on my lane before I could get to them

It actually starts with lvl 1 units now. The Empire uses old AI, but I'm not sure of it's difficulty. Ideally, Empire AI should be scripted and attack in waves, but patrol system currently is broken in editor so it's not possible.

There's a trick though, since area is narrow, you can utilize a gargoyle very well, creating a death tunnel with traps and potions if you are quick enough. Trick is to get to top as quickly as possible. Hellfire potion could be used to destroy walls almost instantly, or just put 2 or 3 underminers nearby.

Okay, this is much better now, thanks. I also learned one thing from this map: You can stop enemy workers from claiming your tiles by putting a Spirit Worker there. Another thing I noticed is that the Empire starts with a ton of high level units and tends to try and kill the player in SP as soon as it breaches into the dungeon, sending a bunch of level 9 units as well as a Titan unit directly to your dungeon core. One thing you have to mindful of in this map is that because the Empire has a Dungeon Core, it acts like an Underlord.

Updated to v1.1.

Re-adjusted some rooms and creatures. Added extra room for all players. Each room contains artifact of gold. Adjusted Empire's land and starting army.

Map still has no scripts because the required scripting tools are currently broken. As such, it's just a revamp of an old pre-scripting version of the map.

I'll rebalance rooms and probably restructure the map itself. Maybe also adjust Empire's land a bit.

My suggestion: Replace the Sanctuary with a Slaughterpen and turn the Witchdoctors into Skargs, perhaps even of the special variants

Probably missing.

I'll give this map a go and fix it tomorrow as much as I can. I'll also re-balance some stuff in the process.

Okay, I tried again and again, but a combination of heals through the Witch Doctors and the Empire AI spamming the Heal spell makes it impossible to kill them before they reach level 4, at which point they learn to resurrect each other and it really becomes impossible to put them down for good as any KO'd Witch Doctor has 3 more waiting to revive him. Focus firing them does not work simply due to the AI of your own creatures, which seems to change target if it gets hit by a pebble.

Another thing I noticed: Where are the Slaughter Pens for the players?

The starting one is Underlord Gateway because well, players are Underlords. Other gateways belong to Empire. Another reason is because people are more familiar with Underlord creatures than Outworld ( Empire ) gateway.

This map was created back when scripting was not allowed. I could try to convert it to 2.0 with scripts, but at moment, the key feature which is required ( ability to assign units to patrols ) isn't working properly and has to be patched by devs. Perhaps after that, I'll revise this map and upgrade it to Proper Survival.

I will try that again. And a minor and random idea: Since you are technically fighting an Underlord, why not replace the Players' Underworld gates with Overworld gates?

AFAIK Witch Doctors are at corners, meaning you can go middle and claim other rooms first. Once you do, you can break the door and get to the room where Witch Doctors are. Drop your army of oculus or skargs and make them fight witch doctors while your workers claim the room. Once room is taken, you can zap witch doctors to death.

The last time I tried, Witch Doctors were not a problem if player focused other areas first.

They deal less damage, yes, BUT they heal each other and can revive. One Witch Doctor wouldn't be a problem, but if you try to focus one, the other three will spam healing spells or even revive their fallen ally

Witch Doctors deal less damage than Cultists.

Tbh, this map is very old and even such a minor improvement will require additional changes ( mostly for Empire ).

For now, I suggest getting lots of Oculus, since they can stun-lock Witch Doctor and kill him without letting him do any harm.

Could you switch the Cultists in the Spirit Chamber with the Witch Doctors in the Sanctuary near the heart? For a long time at the start I couldn't really do much since my flying beasts constantly got murdered by the Witch Doctors, which were afterwards near impossible to kill

Visual improvements. Made claiming the portal even more easier since AI's still had problem with that. Extended the buffer zone between Empire and Players. Removed 2 Gold Shrines from Empire, it doesn't need them anymore.

This is the last update for now. Map will get revisions when Edtior will get triggers and AI becomes a bit smarter. For now it does it's job at claiming rooms and staying alive long enough.

Updated buffer area that was meant to delay Empire. It wasn't working properly in this version, now it does. This should give players even more time before their rooms will be stolen from them.

Replaced Artifacts of Experience with Artifacts of Sin for Empire since they were also buffing units that were guarding rooms. Replaced Balista and Rampart with Blade Lotus since AI players had trouble dealing with it. Moved defences at sides of each player's Core for better coverage and protection.

Reduced the level of gnarlings guarding the lair from 4 to 2. Made claiming of Lair and Portal easier. Replaced Outworld Gateway with Underworld Gateway.

Minor terrain improvements.

Added slightly less aggressive AI and removed some gold from Empire. This should slow it down a bit and give players more time.

Made claiming the lair a bit easier since underminer can no longer be placed on rooms.

Updated map to work as intended in 1.4.

Added tavern and placed 10 tiles of impenetrable rock in the middle to reduce efficiency loss of tavern table for middle players. Their rooms are properly separated and can't be reached directly by both players.

Removed previous blocks that separated Sanctuary from player and replaced it with Empire's Portculis and Balista with barricade. This was made to slightly reduce player's progress from start while also make sure that AI players will eventually claim Sanctuary as well. Tavern is separated by only a single Portculis.

Swapped Empire's Chundlers with Augres. Chundlers are level 4 and now protect tavern, while Augres are level 3 and protect the foundry.

Slightly adjusted Sanctuary for more symmetry.

Reduced the amount of protection for empire in around the core, provided some artifacts since AI will now use them.

Sure thing. Feel free to ask if you have any questions.

I added you as a steamfriend, cause i have some questions about the map and how you made some stuff if thats cool.

Thanks. Glad to hear you enjoy it!

Love your map, best survival map out there for wfto!