updated dude...thx...

thx...nice and worked for me...

I'm desperately looking for something similar for TWWH2. This mod was the best solution to the agent problems without completely removing their functionality and I would really love to see it in TWWH2 as well.

Any chance on seeing this in mortal empires?

Is this up to date?

Sweet. Thanks for your excellent work Chugger :)

Can confirm this works with the 4th DLC. Tbh, I use it as much to nerf MY overpowered agents as much as the AI's, or I just harass them to death.

@Archon of the Void - Already updated :)

Does this mod require an update(or has been updated) for Norsca?

Hrm, well, the mod seems to do what I would expect it to for every situation I've come across so far, including the ones I mentioned it didn't appear to below, so very nice work. Starred and Thumbed.

Hiya Chugger Uggers. I've had a little look at your mod as I've been working on something similar and I can't see you calling any values to prevent assassinations going ahead as normal. Is that deliberate? Additionally, your effects_bundles.loc seems to include every single effect plus presumably ones that you added yourself. Is it supposed to?

@Lawa_my I no longer actively play the game but whenever a new patch comes out I update the mod and give it a brief check. To my knowledge there hasn't been a new patch so it should still be going fine.

tl;dr - yes should do

I hope this works - brilliant in conception!

Adds a lot of fun and kills a lot of frustration - well concived and well excuted - thanks

thanks for update.

thank you sir

@WotanReiswolf - Hmh, that's a strange one - I'm 99% sure this is a base game problem ( that same line is listed online in an online dump of the effect_bundle_core. Regardless, I've pushed through an update so that it has real text, enjoy!

awesome mod, but it causes a localisation bug in the tunneling stance for orcs, it's this key:
{effect_bundles_localised_description_wh_main_bundle_stance_army_tunnelling} {{tr:wh_main_army_stance_tunnelling_description}}
and this:
{effect_bundles_localised_description_wh_main_bundle_stance_army_tunnelling} {{tr:wh_main_army_stance_tunnelling_description}}
both are displayed in-game with the text in the brackets instead of a proper title/description

Thank you for updating.

I've been using this mod for ages now, but recently it seems to not be quite right. I'm finding that OFTEN enemy agents are just standing next to mine, not attacking nor taking any other action, i.e. the enemy agents are wasted. This never used to happen. Any ideas?

thank you!! I've had the "Stupid Agents fix" not work in a savegame (didn't think I'd need it at first) so trying to find an alternative...

@CommissarRotke - It refers to my mod that strips the hidden success chance bonuses from all hero skills (see here - https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=693592647) . I've added a link to the FAQ too to make ti clearer, thanks for bringing this up :)

what other mod are you referencing in the Q&A?

@Chugger

Alright. I deactivated his just to try yours out. I'm playing as the Empire and they seem to be less active, but instead I haven't noticed them doing a single action against my generals/agents or provinces. They either just stand in my province or they follow their general around.

@Korpen - Should be, we might edit the same table but so long as he's minimized his files like I have (or my mod has load order priority) they'll work fine :)

I guess this is compatible with Lower Agents Cap by MINOS? :)

Thank you for this. I just watched the Greenskins slaughter all my generals and agents over the course of like 30 turns as I got closer to beating them. By the time I finally destroyed them, Grudgebearer was the only ranking general I had left.

Thank you!

THANKS BRO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

@SouL_ReaveR Sure does!

@Ceredh You made me paranoid so I just checked my testing saves - everything is acting as before the patch for me, you must have an imcompatible mod.

I'm not sure what happened but after the recent patch I'm back to op agents killing my commanders all the time. Does your mod no longer work?

thanks :)

@SeriousBanana - It's lost in the comments somewhere but I checked a while ago and we didn't edit the same tables so the mods should work fine together.

Can anyone tell me if the mod compatible is Radious?

@SouL_ReaveR Yup!

Great Mod. If I remember correctluy the hinder army is now 3 turns? It may make more sense for this to be 2 as it may be a bit OP. But way better than the Vanilla version of same turn only!

@Tombadil - I'd reccoment you look at my other mod, Less OP Agents - Agent level doesn't affect success chance. That'll drastically reduce the odds of your lords getting murdered. The reason you're not feeling like it has any impact is probably because of the number of enemy agents around you, paired with their bloated levels thanks to succeeding basically every turn, which is just too much for this mod to stop. In my current campaign ( ~turn 170), running both mods I have not had a single instance of chain successes, and I've only lost a lord once.

@Hiram_3475 % jpinard - I'm not really interested in making that sort of thing - reducing the AI odds of success by so much is basically the same as removing the abilities completely, and there are several mods that already do that.

A good idea, but ive seen almost no improvement in my campaign. Its ridiculous, my armies are being hindered and my lords assasinated every single turn, Counter agents dont work at ALL because at this point the OP enemy agents are all lvl 10-15, I'm having to put aside money every turn just so I can recruit new lords to replace in these ridiculous attrition rate.

Love this mod. Does great work and IMHO only NEEDS the increase in the buff time increase. Please don't go too crazy and make wholesale changes to balance such as success chance, etc. There are plenty of mods that already do that.

I like jpinard idea, if you could please tell us, that would be an awesome mod. This mod is also really cool, thanks.
jpinard:
"Chugger - Could you make a version that simply decreases the AI's success rate for the 3 most annoying agent actions?

1. Kill a Player's Character
2. Damage Player's Armies
3. Slow Player's Armies

Maybe decrease those 3 abilites by ~50% no matter what the level the AI is at."

In case anyone is interested, this mod is compatible with "Restricted Agents". That one limits which agents can do which activities, making each agent type more focused. It affects both the AI and the player. I've examined both mods and they affect different tables.

Chugger - Could you make a version that simply decreases the AI's success rate for the 3 most annoying agent actions?

1. Kill a Player's Character
2. Damage Player's Armies
3. Slow Player's Armies

Maybe decrease those 3 abilites by ~50% no matter what the level the AI is at. This would be great for those of us that don't want to waste much of our time with Agents, but still want all the abilities to be there. I'd just have it effect enemy Agients because there are missions for the player that we still need to complete but since we won't be focusing on them it won't create balance problems in the game. Thanks so much for your wonderful work :)

Sorry for late replies, just returned from a mini-holiday!

@KJ - Dig around in effect_bundles_to_effects_junctions_tables for instituting that kind of thing - you can use PFM

@Steel*Faith Sounds like you have another mod editing the same table entries - just fired up my game and all debuffs are acting as they're supposed to.

@cwake - Thank you for the thorough feedback! I'll investigate the debuffs affecting the wrong targets and see if I can pin it down! You raise a very valid point regarding dwarfs assassination needs. Unfortunately I don't think fixing it is within the scope of these 2 mods but I do plan on eventually attempting a rebalance of all skills and their effects on success chance, but I can't really say when that'll be done. When I get to it I will definitely pay special attention to the dwarfs woes! Thanks again!

Anyway, this is just feedback based on using both mods. Obviously this is skewed as a dwarf player race, and maybe it might help give some insight for any future changes/tweaks. I much prefer these mods as a way of balancing agents that others out there, so will still be using it.

The other frustrating part was, playing as dwarves, if I got a grudge to assassinate another faction I might as well forgot about it. Dwarves don't get the spy equivalent abilities, where they get an increase in assassinate chance, so it was simply vanilla values that could only be modified downwards. In contrast, it felt like nearly every second attempt by the AI was a successful assassinate (going up against GBB and banshees). Which considering assassinate spec'd (level 4 minimum) GBB and banshees have base 40% chance, it winds up pretty close to that. It feels like On Guard should last a bit longer, but really the problem is the extra assassinate chance when there is no initial protection anymore. Base 25% chance is fine, but to have it up to 40% without a way to counter it (I couldn't counter assassinate, not once, referring to the above mentioned weirdness as well as the fact that often it was 10-15% chance every time for my agents).

Got some feedback as I just finished a dwarf campaign with both mods active. I was noticing that after an enemy agent made an attempt (success or fail), the success chance of my agents on that one was reduced by 15 most of the time (as if their -15% chance was affecting my chance on them). It was hard to pin point as I had to have the right circumstances, but when it did happen, I noticed the small icon on their agent's portrait saying -15 chance in red after its attempt (so red means negative for them) and mine was saying 15 less when I went to do an action against it. It was frustrating.

Just to report, the on-guard buff does not last for more than one turn. Agents still spammed my army, even after activating both of your mods, and the goblin big boss was only level 5.

On-guard alsted 1 turn, went away, and Thorgrim got killed next turn, despite having assassination attempts for over 5 turns.

Idk if an update went through, but computer is having chain successes again and my units are getting critical fails on 75% all the time. It could be legendary vamps against dwarf death stacks. Pretty sure the comp is cheating when they can afford eight elite armies and have over ten agents. I'll look into it more.

how can this be turned around? I'm looking for a mod that applies a vulnerability modifier to agents that have attempted to perform an agressive action (no matter if success or not) and also the "agent must rest" modifier to the agent itself.
This would help to counter agent spam more efficiently, even if you can't have assassination characters (chaos campaign).

I don't know how others feel about this, but I feel like armies shouldn't get the on guard bonus if the agent fails. It seems to slow agents too much, but then again I'm using both your agent mods, so they're really nerfed. I really like the agent level doesn't affect success chance. It also makes sense too, since it should be the skills and traits that dictate an agents success and not the level.