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XCOM 2 >  Workshop > MrShadow's Workshop > [WOTC] Armored Viper > Discussions
[WOTC] Armored Viper
Description Discussions6 Comments384 Change Notes
Dzūkian Mushroom Crusade 9 Sep, 2018 @ 1:50am
Male Vipers?
So there are some apparent lore inconsistencies here. For example, one of the autopsy reports says...

"This new Viper is much more of a threat than others we have faced. Under its armor, it would seem that these Vipers are actually Male and not Female like the others. This discovery is not good for XCom Commander. Have the Elders been waiting to unleash these male Vipers only in extreme circumstances? Lets hope these things do not show up in numbers like the Females. R. Tygan."

As far as I am aware, there aren't any male Vipers, not under the command of the Elders at least. The Hunters DLC heavily implies that the males were intentionally eliminated by the Elders in an act of androcide, likely for population control, and all the Vipers we see reproduce through artificial means. Subject Gamma, also known as the Viper King, is the only male ever witnessed in game, and was bred in experimental conditions. He, and all the other rulers, were modified by Dr Vahlen as part of a genetic modification project, and are not really affiliated with the aliens. The main threat in regards to the Viper King was his ability to reproduce. The Elders suddenly going back on their decision, and deciding to reintroduce the males would be kind of ridiculous and detrimental, especially considering that the Vipers under the command of the Elders are genetically engineered anyway. If an armoured heavy infantry unit was needed from the Viper species, then the Elders would probably just modify the genetic templates accordingly. I am also not quite certain if male Vipers can actually spit poison, since the Viper King does not appear to do so, breathing frost instead. It does start to make sense if you assume Tygan's statements in regards to the venom glands bearing similarities to terrestrials is supposed to be a nod to their breasts.

I think Lethal_Doors's original intention was to fix the impracticallities of the original armour set (or lack there of) that the original Vipers had. I mean, why should our poor beloved snek ladies have to slither around almost naked in a battlefield where bullets are flying all over the place, while the snek dudes get all the good stuff?

But anyway, this criticism is for the most part just my stupid entitled opinion, and I don't mean any disrespect by it. Feel free to criticize right back at me.
Last edited by Dzūkian Mushroom Crusade; 9 Sep, 2018 @ 10:44am
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Showing 1-10 of 10 comments
Lady Steelheart 10 Sep, 2018 @ 4:36pm 
I mean, you are not wrong. The units go directly against the lore of the game universe to fulfill the rule of cool. Vipers have always been infiltration and stealth units. Vipers are, according to the elders themselves at the end of XCOM EU/EW, completely incapable of developing psionic powers. It is why, despite being perfect candidates in every other way, the elders considered them one in a long like of failures. (This info comes from the elder dialogue when encountering thin men on the Temple Ship)

From a visual standpoint, these units are outstanding, and I commend them for making a viper capable of attacking with a weapon other than a rifle variant. However. I feel like the design got away from them a little bit. It's not that they did a bad job, it looks great, I just think it is over designed compared to other enemies in the game, and the art they were working off of in the first place. Overall, the body is pretty bulky, and a lot of details are lost due to the coloration of the final product, muddying the overall appearance.

If I knew how to do anything with coloring an object on a computer, I might make a more educated suggestion. However, the closest thing to that I have is in painting high detail minatures. If it were me, I would use a mix of Dark Grey and Blue Grey for the vast majority of it, highlight the important parts with a bright silver and do the lights in red, then go over it all with a black shader. The black settles into the lines, making them more visible, while also darkening the other three colors and helping them blend together better. Not really sure if you can do something similar with 3D modeling on a computer, though. Point is, never use all black, especially Glossy Black. You lose all of the details.

That's just my opinion. If you feel different, I am open to discuss it further.
#1
Dzūkian Mushroom Crusade 10 Sep, 2018 @ 9:24pm 
Originally posted by Zakyra Vale:
I mean, you are not wrong. The units go directly against the lore of the game universe to fulfill the rule of cool. Vipers have always been infiltration and stealth units. Vipers are, according to the elders themselves at the end of XCOM EU/EW, completely incapable of developing psionic powers. It is why, despite being perfect candidates in every other way, the elders considered them one in a long like of failures. (This info comes from the elder dialogue when encountering thin men on the Temple Ship)

From a visual standpoint, these units are outstanding, and I commend them for making a viper capable of attacking with a weapon other than a rifle variant. However. I feel like the design got away from them a little bit. It's not that they did a bad job, it looks great, I just think it is over designed compared to other enemies in the game, and the art they were working off of in the first place. Overall, the body is pretty bulky, and a lot of details are lost due to the coloration of the final product, muddying the overall appearance.

If I knew how to do anything with coloring an object on a computer, I might make a more educated suggestion. However, the closest thing to that I have is in painting high detail minatures. If it were me, I would use a mix of Dark Grey and Blue Grey for the vast majority of it, highlight the important parts with a bright silver and do the lights in red, then go over it all with a black shader. The black settles into the lines, making them more visible, while also darkening the other three colors and helping them blend together better. Not really sure if you can do something similar with 3D modeling on a computer, though. Point is, never use all black, especially Glossy Black. You lose all of the details.

That's just my opinion. If you feel different, I am open to discuss it further.

With the retirement of the Thin Men, the Vipers are no longer infiltration units, and agility would actually make heavy armour more effective. A soldier with a lot of stamina would make better use of heavy armour, than a sluggish one. An armoured Viper can effectivley function in manner similar to real world Quick Reactionary Forces and Rapid Deplyment Forces, bringing heavy firepower with quick response times. So, it actually is pretty reasonable for Vipers to have a heavy special operations unit.

The armour design is for the most part pretty good. I just think the ventral side of the tail is a little too bulky. Snakes use concertina motion to move themselves, which involves a series of contractions and expansions of the ventral muscles. When you put armoured plating over the ventral side of the tail, the snake will be immobalized. Now maybe the armoured suit in this mod artificially reproduces the effects of concertina motion, but it would be a lot more efficient to just put a thin elastic material over it. Lethal_Doors's art, does not appears to have any armour on the ventral side of the tail, as you could make out the gastrosteges. The dorsal side of the tail being covered in armour attached in a manner similar to Torcs. The upper body has a cuirass that covers both sides of the body.
Last edited by Dzūkian Mushroom Crusade; 10 Sep, 2018 @ 9:25pm
#2
Cato 16 Sep, 2018 @ 10:48am 
We do not know for certain that there are no male Vipers under the Elder's Command - Alien Hunter's DLC merely contains Vahlen's speculations about gender control on the Viper Species.

She may have been wrong.

Humanity is like a child trying to grasp at the complexity of the Elders machinations. Perhaps the Viper Males are posted on another frontline world. Like the Mutons, they might be formed into fighting legions across countless worlds. We simply do not know.
#3
Cato 16 Sep, 2018 @ 11:15am 
"The so-called 'Subject Gamma' was a hybrid created by the perfidious Dr. Vahlen and her reckless genetic experimentation. A freak. A dangerous abherration fit only for guard duty in remote areas.

Now you behold the true Viper male, a formidable specimen. His coils are unyielding and his intellect is keen. We will crush you!'"

- Speaker address to the Commander during Operation Hydra Shriek. Suppressed to maintain Resistance morale.
#4
Dzūkian Mushroom Crusade 16 Sep, 2018 @ 10:48pm 
Originally posted by Cato Heresy:
We do not know for certain that there are no male Vipers under the Elder's Command - Alien Hunter's DLC merely contains Vahlen's speculations about gender control on the Viper Species.

She may have been wrong.

Humanity is like a child trying to grasp at the complexity of the Elders machinations. Perhaps the Viper Males are posted on another frontline world. Like the Mutons, they might be formed into fighting legions across countless worlds. We simply do not know.

We know they are never seen at any point in the game, and the Elders probably did this for a reason. The Rulers DLC shows that the Viper King breeds like crazy, with all the neonates surounding his lair, and Vahlen does make a pretty big deal about its reproductive capabilities, stating that "If Gamma is indeed reproducing, if it is somehow communicating with others of its kind then...we are lost."

Of course, I do wonder why the Elders couldn't just make them all sterile. That would be a lot easier and more efficient than to neutralise a significant population of a species.


Originally posted by Cato Heresy:
"The so-called 'Subject Gamma' was a hybrid created by the perfidious Dr. Vahlen and her reckless genetic experimentation. A freak. A dangerous abherration fit only for guard duty in remote areas.

Now you behold the true Viper male, a formidable specimen. His coils are unyielding and his intellect is keen. We will crush you!'"

- Speaker address to the Commander during Operation Hydra Shriek. Suppressed to maintain Resistance morale.

Am I missing something? When is this ever said? There are no other male Vipers seen in game.
#5
onestrongbow GocleCD 22 Sep, 2018 @ 1:05am 
Originally posted by Stalin's Crusade:
So there are some apparent lore inconsistencies here. For example, one of the autopsy reports says...

"This new Viper is much more of a threat than others we have faced. Under its armor, it would seem that these Vipers are actually Male and not Female like the others. This discovery is not good for XCom Commander. Have the Elders been waiting to unleash these male Vipers only in extreme circumstances? Lets hope these things do not show up in numbers like the Females. R. Tygan."

As far as I am aware, there aren't any male Vipers, not under the command of the Elders at least. The Hunters DLC heavily implies that the males were intentionally eliminated by the Elders in an act of androcide, likely for population control, and all the Vipers we see reproduce through artificial means. Subject Gamma, also known as the Viper King, is the only male ever witnessed in game, and was bred in experimental conditions. He, and all the other rulers, were modified by Dr Vahlen as part of a genetic modification project, and are not really affiliated with the aliens. The main threat in regards to the Viper King was his ability to reproduce. The Elders suddenly going back on their decision, and deciding to reintroduce the males would be kind of ridiculous and detrimental, especially considering that the Vipers under the command of the Elders are genetically engineered anyway. If an armoured heavy infantry unit was needed from the Viper species, then the Elders would probably just modify the genetic templates accordingly. I am also not quite certain if male Vipers can actually spit poison, since the Viper King does not appear to do so, breathing frost instead. It does start to make sense if you assume Tygan's statements in regards to the venom glands bearing similarities to terrestrials is supposed to be a nod to their breasts.
Well put it this way , if it's a lore probleme , imagine what could happen when the Viper king Escaped ? reproduce himself even more , and since the viper king isn't realy an advent afiliated , he could have created army of uncontrolled new born viper (children of the king Mod) made out of both male and female since no one can control their births
#6
Arkhangel 22 Sep, 2018 @ 8:44pm 
to be honest guys, the canon is your headcanon. mean, hell, my XCOM corps has Asari, Krogan, Salarians, Twi'leks, Turians, Mutants, Escaped Experiments, robots of at least four kinds, a rogue Codex, Biotics, Psionics, alien/human hybrids, Cyborgs, etc.

half the fun is your own headcanon as to why you have what you have, and why ADVENT deployed what they deploy.

mean, case in point, take Claus's Pathfinders. they're specifically meant to be brutal Resistance Hunters who work en masse (and per Claus's WoTCupdate, can be "lesser chosen"). that prompted me to make a Cyborg trooper who'd been unlucky enough to get crucified them as a warning to his resistance group (Red Prince's Regiment, ty No Nations mod), but only got their leader pissed off, and got said leader to get the best black market cybernetic augments for him.

to be honest, an arguement with the Male vipers being the Armored ones, and this'll sound funny? "full body chastity belt."

they can't breed if they can't remove the suit.
#7
ryousanko 2 Dec, 2018 @ 8:49pm 
They arent "lore unfriendly" they just need a little more fluff.
#8
Orion 17 Dec, 2018 @ 2:42pm 
Arkhangel, you use mass effect mods too? Sweet.
#9
Kakroom 13 Apr, 2019 @ 6:55pm 
Originally posted by Arkhangel:
to be honest, an arguement with the Male vipers being the Armored ones, and this'll sound funny? "full body chastity belt."

they can't breed if they can't remove the suit.

Jake make this canon.
#10
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