RimWorld

RimWorld

InsectUpgrades
Zoviscyne 15 May, 2019 @ 9:36pm
Insectoid Balance
Just moving the conversation to discussions for focus and ease of access should the mod balloon with comments.

So going with the idea that all three insectoids were tamable, and are tuned to better suit such with greater tamability and more fleshed out capabilities alongside potentially all having armour; what, then, differentiates them best?


The megaspider itself has a lot going for it already with its sheer damage and durability, and being a pack animal suits its size. However, full trainability might be a bit too much for it, even if it has near maximum wildness; maybe a trainability level below one that would suit it better? Given its nature as the upper caste, it doesn't really need to produce anything; it's more the guard than the worker proper.

The megascarab by contrast is a eusocial worker drone, being (just barely) the fastest insectoid, but also the least powerful one. It's described as a creature of utility, so then why not make it so? An insect dog, in a sense; a periodic nuzzle, moderate wildness, and the trainability to be able to rescue and haul but without the ability to function as a pack animal. Note that megascarabs are explicitly stated as not being able to reproduce individually, so perhaps they could be the product of spelopede or megaspider egg batches?

The spelopede then is the middleground in capabilities; thus, why not aim for something in the middle of the two? Leave the pure overwhelming power to the megaspider, the rescue and hauling to the megascarab, but still be able to function as a pack animal. Given its nature as the middle caste, perhaps let it rarely produce low amounts of insect jelly?
Last edited by Zoviscyne; 15 May, 2019 @ 9:37pm
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TheGoofyOne  [developer] 16 May, 2019 @ 6:55pm 
I did miss this sorry. I wish I would have had it before I made everything as what you say makes sense.

I just took an approach that the smallest can do the least, the biggest the most, and the medium well in between.

During my testing over the last 24 hours I found the adult megascarab gets attacked by even cobras, kinda like terriers do :), so it doesn't seem to be big enough to do any work to me. It would get annihilated hauling all over a map. Seems it's definition lacks it's ability in game. I think it's due to sizing only, what attacks what game wise. But is it OK as a hauler if it has armour on it? I didn't test this. I still think it will get attacked, but lets test it right?

I do however think you may be on to something on the other two. Make the Megaspider more like a muffalo, can train, pack, and attack, and make the spelopede the hauler of the colony but no pack, like it is right now.

Am I following you correctly?
Zoviscyne 16 May, 2019 @ 7:00pm 
I imagine a megascarab would always be attacked just by its nature of being so tiny; it's a worker beetle, there's meant to be a horde of them working, like giant ants. So yeah, it being hunted is just something that has to be watched out for; people can always restrict its movement to a specific zone anyways, rimworlds aren't known for being safe!

But yes, you're following. c:
Hope my suggestions help some <3
TheGoofyOne  [developer] 16 May, 2019 @ 7:18pm 
Ahhh OK making more sense. I'll work on this a little for sure!

So after these changes I'll make a version that only friends can see and we'll work on that one to test.

Egg lay and hatch times are Spider 20, spelo 16, scarb 12. so in 24 days you can have 1 to three baby scarabs, 32 days spelos, and 40 days spiders. With the scarabs being the main haulers they will produce more, so it kinda works like you're saying, have a horde.

Should we change anything on egg laying and hatch times?

The spider produces 9 insect jelly every two days, the spelopede ant produces 5 chemfuel every two days, and the scarab produces nothing. They all shed and produce 1, 2 and 3 insect armour chucks every 5 days, each smeltable for 5 steel and 2 plasteel. So spider produces 15 steel and 6 plasteel, spelo 10 and 4, and scarab 5 and 2, every 5 days. Thoughts here?


So what to do for now is the following:

1.) Add hauling to megascarab. (increase from intermediate to advanced training)
2.) Remove hauling from Megaspider, leave pack. (reduce from Advanced to Intermediate training.)
3.) Add packs to the Spelopedes , leaving hauling. (add pack in xml files and create textures)

Zoviscyne 16 May, 2019 @ 8:18pm 
All good to me! Good work so far, and good luck on further developments. :lunar2019piginablanket:
TheGoofyOne  [developer] 16 May, 2019 @ 8:24pm 
So I added the trainability to the megascarab, but it wouldn't show up for haul or medical saves, so after some tinkering i found it is related to its weight. The scarab is set to 0.2 weight, and at 0.4 it will haul but not rescue, and at 0.7 it will rescue also. so three and a half times the original size/weight in order to get it to work. Makes sense I suppose. Have to be a pretty big animal to carry a human home. :( Thoughts?

And if you have thoughts on any of the other items let me know.
Zoviscyne 16 May, 2019 @ 8:38pm 
I imagine at 0.4 it could carry smaller races, like Avali or Yabil, or human children should a given child mod reduce weight proportionately; there are a lot of race mods out there! Full weight, standard human rescue could be reserved for the spelopede, maybe? Proper canines and wolves with full trainability can already carry all humans, and that's about the size the spelopede approaches; the megascarab doesn't necessarily need to be able to do that too.
TheGoofyOne  [developer] 16 May, 2019 @ 9:22pm 
10-4 TY. Should be good then. i'll play with it and see if anyone else has any input for a bit before pushing an update.
Fishbones 17 May, 2019 @ 3:44am 
hmm.. i like where this thread is going.
+1
TheGoofyOne  [developer] 17 May, 2019 @ 5:32am 
You do too huh? Nice. And TY for your input.

I'm feeling it as well so going to post in the main MOD if anyone has any thoughts on changing the MOD dynamics from where this has taken us.
TheGoofyOne  [developer] 22 May, 2019 @ 7:34am 
I took a lot of what was mentioned here as well as other ideas I had and pushed a new update. Thank you for your input I really appreciate it. :)
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