STAR WARS™ Empire at War: Gold Pack

STAR WARS™ Empire at War: Gold Pack

Empire at War Expanded: Fall of the Republic 1.5 (Updated May 4th)
My personal feelings with the update
I will be honest, I have enjoyed corey and his team's mods for quite a while now, and it's been nice to see how they progress and how new mechanics get made (or even uncovered from the hidden depths of EAW's source code).

Though, not every update is always a positive one, and in fairness, these things happen.

My biggest complaint this update has got to do with the Republic and how it's set up, and how that particularly shines through painfully in this update (and I'm not just talking about the broken CIS AI making the republic quite hard to play as right now)

I understand there is often a bit of a reverence for handling things such as how they would in lore, and I suppose to some degree it's not that bad of a thing to hold dear. It's only fair that the republic can't start pumping out ISDs before they've even gotten their Venators.

That being said, there is a prevalence in the EAWX mods with era-specific units and unique units you can only get through specific situations.

On one hand, I think that's fine, especially how the factions in TR are set up to have their own unique rosters and ideally they should only be able to get unique things in certain situations because of the fractured nature of the galaxy in that scenario.

On the other, you have this mod, wherein the Republic is supposed to be theoretically getting its ♥♥♥♥ together and forcing its way through trying to win a galactic scale war (and with palpatine manipulating the whole situation, it does pretty good at that).
In most situations, for some reason, maybe some preconceived notion about balance or something..? the Republic is just deciding to discard not-that-old tech for new things which, sometimes, aren't even better.

Take the Acclamator Assault variant for instance. Very good upper-medium ship with some decent fighter carrying, good health, speed, and firepower all in a relatively cheap package that can be discounted by two of your arguably most important shipwrights and is effectively available near the beginning of the war.

It's then replaced by the Imperial-I frigate, which is just outright worse than it in every way. It is likewise also not discounted by Rothana Heavy Engineering.

There's also arguably more egregious instances, such as infantry variants. Those nice new airborne, recon, and blaze troopers you have? Hope you enjoy how few of them you've got, because you'll only be able to happen-stance upon a mission to get a couple more units of them if you're lucky, and naturally you're not allowed to build any more because.. you just can't, okay?!

Not even to mention the AT-XT, which for whatever reason just kinda goes away early into the war and doesn't get replaced by anything, even though we've seen them appear in late-war sources and even in post-clone wars stuff like Galaxies, which takes place after the battle of yavin. Not replaced by the Pod Walkers which the Hutts have in TR, nor an early AT-ST variant or just straight up the AT-ST itself. It's just gone with no alternative.

Or the Invincible Battlecruiser, which, while old, we know does continue getting used by the Empire. Heck, Yularen ends up getting a late-war upgrade into one of them now. Why can't we just keep building them, even if there would be arguably better ships for their role and fleet pop cap?

Not to mention stuff like the CorSec troopers, Temple Security guards, or Republic Heavy troopers.. the list goes on..

Or even the new Providence variants. You'd think they could be a permanent cost-cutting alternative to throwing all your eggs into one basket, getting the best of one quality or the other instead of spending all the money on a carrier-destroyer, but nah, they're kinda just there for a few minutes and then it's all about the hybridized version forever.

Nevermind some still prevalent issues from the last version, like the CIS being able to swarm you to death with fighters because they have a bunch of tinies who give a bunch for very little cost, as opposed to having those kinds of swarms locked to the larger ships like Lucrehulks. (looking at you, C9979 and Hardcell)


And another issue, relatedly..


While it is also cool to see the Rothana Rising battleships join the Republic's roster, they are also annoyingly locked behind a gimmicky mechanic which relies on there being a specific circumstance where a ship of that type shows up on a market. I get it, playing the CSA in TR is fun. But the mechanic is so much of a patience test that it really only works for the CSA because they're meant to stay into their little corner for a long time until they're ready to explode an insane amount of resources out into the wider galaxy.

This has just been an issue for the past few versions, and unfortunately not one they've thought to fix or change in any way possible.

Meanwhile as you're just waiting for the right ship(s) to try and build your fleet around, the CIS is able to just research their way into an infinite amount of Bulwark 1's and 2's, throw a little bit of money at Grievous to get him into Malevolence, and also get a handful of other Subjugators and an infinite amount of wartime-configuration Lucrehulks because of the time you, the republic player, spent sitting there waiting for your own proper battleships.

Holistically the only way this would really feel fair or "fun" by some metric is if the CIS was forced to the same kind of market for their own major ships. Then you'd have most of your fights consisting of classic Venator vs. Providence lead fleet actions, and then when you see something like a Lucrehulk show up it feels more impactful (especially to destroy it) instead of just knowing they have like 15+ of them ready to go elsewhere.

Or otherwise, just not having the Kuat ship dealing as it is now, since it's so painfully sluggish and not very fair when the enemy can pummel you with many big ships while you're still waiting for your own.


That being said..


There is a way I'd surmise you could fix the other issue with units even if you want to argue that letting the republic keep too many of their things in their core roster would be overpowered or "unfun" by any metric - in fact, a way that is done to handle a lot of these things already - Influence or unique structures.

This method is ordinarily just used to grant you otherwise unaffiliated units, but, what if it could give you factionally-based units as well? For instance, all the new clone variants. They're fine and dandy, but you otherwise can't really get them all that well, and it generally comes off as a disappointment because they die as fast as your ordinary buildable clones. What if you could instead get those unique variants directly from the training centre on Kamino? It could either be attached to the current Cloning Facility building, or even be its own unique building.

The same could apply to units like the CorSec troops, Jedi Temple Security, and ORSF Special Tactics troopers and so on; even maybe adding some permanence to units like the Assault Acclamator and the AT-XT that get replaced in your main roster - but all of this more directly applies, since there already are buildings in the mod such things could be tied to.

Even just the idea of making those kinds of things a higher influence reward would allow you to use them more frequently, but only through means of holding down those specific planets they come from.

Such things I have noticed outright in submods before, and I will admit it feels a little silly when I don't see such changes present in the main EAWX mods when they would be fairly easy to add, at least in theory.

By no means am I trying to say the update was bad, I am very happy that we still have an active modding community and by all means I endorse people to keep playing the EAWX mods, they are loads of fun a majority of the time, it just pains me when feasibly smaller issues like these stick out like a sore thumb. As someone who had experienced older versions of Republic at War, believe me, some of the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that happens here is nothing compared to issues mods used to face. It's good to see the whole community & the scope of the mods grow over time potentially even to the point where we wouldn't even need an EAW 2. And I've loved TR ever since seeing a video on it in like 2012. Corey and his team are good people who deliver a great product to us, essentially for free, so it'd be rude to just ♥♥♥♥ on their hard work even if I don't entirely agree with some of the decisions made.

But that all being said, you can tell me your thoughts, personally. I would like to hear anyone and everyone's thoughts on this.
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Showing 1-15 of 36 comments
sorry if i didnt word this entirely the best, 3 am discussion be like

not to mention how i avoided getting into other complaints about things like pop cap balancing because i dont wanna come off too much like im whining, just wanted to point out mainly how inherent mod features basically skew the gameplay fairly significantly towards the CIS, and how i'd hope that can get fixed if only by situational means/smart gameplay
I was coming here to say something like this the units locked to the missions rewards is frustrating and I'm sitting here looking for a way to add the units you lose to era progression back to the game for a FGTU run and I've already increased the Market to give a more reliable spawn rate of Capital ships as I like the idea that each of these is an investment and takes time to build a fleet of them but at the same time they need to be somewhat available to deal with luckerhulk and bulwark bullying I will face so having more variety there is nice.I am not trying to disparage or Make it seem like this mod sucks either I love it honestly I prefer it over Thrawns Revenge but that has to do with growing up and having The clone wars TV show be something I would watch on the TV
aye so you know how I feel about it
Hypnosis 5 May @ 12:46pm 
The Invincible is no longer in production that's why. It's available to buy on the KDY marketplace. A new feature. Also it makes sense that CIS is more aggressive than Republic. They start off by attacking your weaker isolated out rim worlds, which is pretty realistic. Player controlled Republic is an easy campaign because you have a great economy.

This update adds a lot of role playing elements, especially with the new fleshed out garrison system. I think your feedback should be ignored, honestly, and I feel strongly about that.

We'll have to disagree. I disagree with everything you said. This update is the greatest.
Last edited by Hypnosis; 5 May @ 12:48pm
You can't have every unit buildable or you'll run out of room/space on the build bar.
NMS  [developer] 5 May @ 6:37pm 
The issue with making many of those things buildable at once is it both takes away build bar space which is limited within the confines of the EaW UI as stated, and it takes away from the core rosters intended for both factions. The CIS and Republic both have a plethora of units applicable for the period and we have to focus on a baseline roster with modifications across eras for the gameplay styles both are meant to have, it's the same reason all the Imperials in Thrawn's Revenge can only build select units meant for their playstyles instead of every appropriate Imperial thing.

Mission rewards and ship market mechanics are the way to get these things in while still limiting access to them, otherwise these units would likely not be in the mod at all. I understand frustration with RNG but units like that should be taken as more fun bonuses to get for doing content more than an end goal to achieve in of themselves. The CIS having access to bigger ships more consistently point I would also argue fits with that,. We don't think that just because the Republic doesn't have access to a Praetor consistently that it's thaat much harder to beat a Lucrehulk variant with Assault/Carrier Acc/DHC flotillas, if anything that's the easiest way to take them down.

Also FYI CorSec Troopers are influence on Corellia so you can build them in any GC that features them.
Nice thanks for the information about corsec I need to get coreelia influence up more regularly then :) I think personally having more influence unlocks would be a nice medium on having these cool reward ships e.g. the starbolts and limited space on the ui. And I get the numbers limit on big ships I just feel bad when I have more than half the dreadnought yards and rolls mean I haven't gotten a large capital ship in the what feels like the last ten cycles amd destroyed dozens from the enemy

Originally posted by NMS:
The issue with making many of those things buildable at once is it both takes away build bar space which is limited within the confines of the EaW UI as stated, and it takes away from the core rosters intended for both factions. The CIS and Republic both have a plethora of units applicable for the period and we have to focus on a baseline roster with modifications across eras for the gameplay styles both are meant to have, it's the same reason all the Imperials in Thrawn's Revenge can only build select units meant for their playstyles instead of every appropriate Imperial thing.

Mission rewards and ship market mechanics are the way to get these things in while still limiting access to them, otherwise these units would likely not be in the mod at all. I understand frustration with RNG but units like that should be taken as more fun bonuses to get for doing content more than an end goal to achieve in of themselves. The CIS having access to bigger ships more consistently point I would also argue fits with that,. We don't think that just because the Republic doesn't have access to a Praetor consistently that it's thaat much harder to beat a Lucrehulk variant with Assault/Carrier Acc/DHC flotillas, if anything that's the easiest way to take them down.

Also FYI CorSec Troopers are influence on Corellia so you can build them in any GC that features them.
The KDY market for me isn't a huge deal to me, but C9979s and Hardcells having fighters is awful to play against. The AI prioritizes in spamming them and the swarming becomes obnoxious which.. granted, it is the CIS so it is lore accurate to some extent, but I agree that the swarming should be mostly relegated to the larger carriers like the Lucrehulks or Providence carriers.

I haven't tried the update yet (tho from what it sounds like my gripe persists), the other thing I do agree with is rare units being a little too rare. Mission reward units, at least the ones that are liable to die or be destroyed in combat pretty quickly, should be influence units on certain planets or with certain buildings dedicated to them.

I've done a fair amount of galactic conquests with this mod (mostly as the GR) and while my gripes with it aren't enough for me to put it down, it does make me go into the files and change some things around occasionally.. the C9979/Hardcell thing specifically since I believe that it rewards the CIS a little too much for very little cost and resources.
The problem I have with the KDY market isn't necessarily the mechanic itself, rather the fact that the CIS has no such limitations on it in return. Sure, some special variants of ships like the Lucrehulk Fighter Buffer Variant (or whatever it's called) are sat behind mission rewards, but almost all of the Republic's proper capital vessels besides the single Mandator you can get are locked behind the KDY market.

And sure, it IS possible to win as I have done so over a dozen times as the Republic at this point, but it feels so tedious for varied reasons, ranging from the start to the middle of your campaign where you're just hoping not to get swamped by large vessels, to the late game where those last few necessary conquests are taking much longer because you have to take the time to replace Venator and Acclamator losses or else you'll lose whatever fleet anchor ships you do have and risk the CIS making a tide-turning breakthrough.

As I said in the original suggestion though, if the CIS had a mirrored version of the KDY market mechanic I believe it'd be a lot more fair and more fun when you are fighting against those larger ships, knowing the CIS wouldn't be able to easily replace a Lucrehulk like how you can't easily replace a Maelstrom.
Originally posted by Camelidae:
The KDY market for me isn't a huge deal to me, but C9979s and Hardcells having fighters is awful to play against. The AI prioritizes in spamming them and the swarming becomes obnoxious which.. granted, it is the CIS so it is lore accurate to some extent, but I agree that the swarming should be mostly relegated to the larger carriers like the Lucrehulks or Providence carriers.

I haven't tried the update yet (tho from what it sounds like my gripe persists), the other thing I do agree with is rare units being a little too rare. Mission reward units, at least the ones that are liable to die or be destroyed in combat pretty quickly, should be influence units on certain planets or with certain buildings dedicated to them.

I've done a fair amount of galactic conquests with this mod (mostly as the GR) and while my gripes with it aren't enough for me to put it down, it does make me go into the files and change some things around occasionally.. the C9979/Hardcell thing specifically since I believe that it rewards the CIS a little too much for very little cost and resources.

I really do appreciate the attention to lore and the balancing so far in the new update. As for the sheer number of CIS starfighters, I think this complaint is largely overblown and somewhat obtuse. The Republic has more than enough counter-measures and fighter spam of its own to balance what can seem like overwhelming odds; whether that be more late game corvette options like the newly added lancer frigate, or a carrier heavy composition using accumulator spam. I would even postulate that the republic offers more diverse play-styles than the CIS.
You could say that, yes, except for the fact that a good chunk of the republic's corvettes are not actually anti-fighter, the lancer frigate prototype you can only get from mission rewards (as far as I'm aware), and all of those small ships in the republic's roster are not providing the same additional fighters most of the CIS' options are.

That's also not to even consider that some of the CIS ships providing the most fighters are things like Lucrehulks, which are specifically designed so they are purely bad in situations where they're put up against true battleships - which you can't get without a tedious amount of waiting. As a result they're dotted to the brim with laser cannons that just make using fighters and all your variety of light ships like Chargers and Arquitens and even sometimes Acclamators a little painful-to-pointless against them.

And the 'just spam acclamators or venators' argument is stupid. For the price of one acclamator you can get like 5 C9979s which will deliver like 8x the amount of fighters. Dial it up to full fleet scaling, that's like maybe 15 or so acclamators out at once vs like 50 C9979s. Direct engagement obviously aside if you're playing as the CIS here, I'm sure you can do the fighter math. Nevermind the fact that the droid carrier is an inherent anti-fighter-anti-missile ship.

Once again I am not saying that it is impossible to win as the republic because I definitely have. The problem is just that it's such a long and tedious process where nearly every other faction in their other mods don't really have this issue with attrition. And sure, maybe they designed it this way intentionally. If that is the case then hard be it for me to argue how modders should design their factions, since I definitely don't know how much time and effort goes into it. But there's also that chance this isn't their vision, and it helps to give communal input for their own sake of clarity.
Replex 7 May @ 3:36am 
I like that you cant get some units, makes them more unique and makes me wanna to the missions
this community hates criticism, you should've kept it to yourself
NMS  [developer] 7 May @ 12:47pm 
@True I get your point on C-9979s being really easy to spam if you just want fighters, but you're also mostly just getting fighters and some okay point defense with them otherwise. While an Acclamator of any major variant has a great amount of strike potential too that can wipe the floor with multiple C-9979s, and in mid to late game the VSD-1 also fulfills that role as its light turbos and missiles make it excellent at tearing through smaller escort ships. You're paying for mostly just the bombers with the C-9979 if you do want to fighter spam, and if you want to counter that as Rep your main corvette options like a screen of CR90s can negate most of that with proper fleet comp. If you are playing CIS yourself you can really make use of that fighter advantage I agree, but I think that comes from the player in a game like this being naturally at an advantage of how to use their forces more than an issue with the units of themselves.

And again as far as the Republic not having access to the tier 4 yard ships without the market goes, that's how we limited them to make the Republic not spamming those an issue. Having the Republic lean on Praetors especially for the AI isn't really something that was desired for the Clone Wars mod, while Lucrehulks in comparison fit to see more of from the CIS. Lucrehulks shapes and circular weapon emplacements also leave them more vulnerable compared to other larger ships as focusing on them from a single angle can really tear through them quick. An unsupported Lucrehulk Battlecarrier for example can be dispatched with 4-5 Acclamator Carriers or 6-8 DHCs alone if you position them right and don't overextend, which still amounts to less pop than the Lucrehulk. Combined with that you can build these smaller ships on more planets at once compared to a single Lucrehulk and the math leans there way as it does with smaller ships in general for EaW. This might just be my experience but I don't have an issue with attrition as Republic except when playing something masochistic like Cruel Admiral.
Originally posted by That_Goth_Nerd:
this community hates criticism, you should've kept it to yourself
society
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