Darkest Dungeon®

Darkest Dungeon®

The Itinerant Cook
BayBot  [developer] 27 Jan, 2020 @ 12:40pm
Balance - Itinerant Cook
Please feel free to give your thoughts about the balance.
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Showing 1-15 of 25 comments
Sovereign246 28 Jan, 2020 @ 8:45am 
Can i ask what the intention behind her ending restoration and not getting her heal buff at the end of combat was? one or the other i could understand but with both it makes her healing side feel really lacking. Particularly as all her healing buffs affect the main course only and she cant stack restoration on allies. Her damage side feels nice though bleed and blight in one package means you can take her anywhere really and numbers are decent enough that the extra ticks are nice but dont feel necessary. So it feels like she can contribute to a short fight and a long one differently which is cool.
Last edited by Sovereign246; 28 Jan, 2020 @ 8:51am
BayBot  [developer] 28 Jan, 2020 @ 9:30am 
Got you. Here are my thoughts :
- not getting the heal buff at the end of combat is, imo, mandatory. You don't benefit from poison buff anyway, so allowing heal buff would incit players to pick mostly skills that add heal buff.
- restoration is really strong, kinda op with lots of modded heroes. Getting a quite good aoe heal while keeping the restoration would basically garantee a full party heal.
- Main course goal is just to sustain the whole party at first. Ending it is a good instant heal that can save you, but the fact that it will let you exposed is the counterpart (as i said in previous point).
- also, cook has other ways to heal, outside battle, looting food and giving heal bonus from eating. I didn't want her to heal with one repetitive skill.
Hope it answers your question.
Last edited by BayBot; 28 Jan, 2020 @ 9:39am
Sovereign246 28 Jan, 2020 @ 11:15am 
- That's fair and there were a few occasions were her heal buff was 100% (that was me dragging the fight out so i could test her but still) which would have healed the party to full.
- That explains why she ends restoration and i can see why that would be an issue (we aren't trying to make this easy after all) but i feel like she needs some form of interaction with restoration, i'll preface this by saying i haven't run into many of her trinkets yet and i haven't seen her court set, her inability to stack or transfer restoration feels like it could be an issue seeing as enemies can stack bleeds/blights. However these are my first impressions of her so i'll see how she feels later on and as i said i dragged a couple of the fights out to test her more fully.
- I have no issues with main course itself i was just pointing out that she cant stack restoration, transfer it or buff its effectiveness, she has that skill that buffs healing received on an ally but can only do so twice.
- Fair point, i haven't tried looting with her and making her more focused on out of combat healing is certainly a different take. I also was not aware she was missing the ingredient mechanic (must of missed that on my first read through).
These are just my thoughts btw, i understand that with any creative endevour the creator has an aim for what they are making. If anything i'm pointing out falls outside the role you intend for her thats fine. I'll still use her, these are just observations.
BayBot  [developer] 28 Jan, 2020 @ 2:40pm 
Creators are also too focused on some details to sometimes see mistakes. Thank you for your feedbacks. I'll definitely keep an eye on it and surely some tweaks will happen - I just don't know what yet :)
Please let me know how it evolved if you're playing more with her.
Zazu 28 Jan, 2020 @ 8:07pm 
i saw this thread and wanted to put it here. the change mode buff is awesome, but it makes it hard to use cook in farmstead since i really like it as both dmg and healer.
Da Erkka 29 Jan, 2020 @ 12:31am 
Right now I feel there's not enough difference between the two modes. There's little reason to *not* switch into cook mode right away, making one wonder why there even are two different modes since cooking mode offers nothing but benefits. Maybe if there was some buff/debuff or risk when going into cooking mode, it would introduce more of a tactical choice?
BayBot  [developer] 29 Jan, 2020 @ 3:41am 
@Zazuls : i'll refresh the skill after each wave, should be ok after that
@ Da Erkka : I understand. I found myself that sometimes it's not the best option to go into cooking mode. I think the skills are really more powerful when not cooking, but if you have some examples I'll be glad to hear your thoughts. But overall, you're probably right on the buff / debuff thing. I'll definitely consider it.
Da Erkka 30 Jan, 2020 @ 4:00am 
Just to be clear; I don't think there's anything wrong with the current set up, it feels to me that there's not *enough* of a difference between the skills and modes, like they are all different colors but the contrast is a little too low.

While they are clear buffs between the two modes, they feel for me inconsequential, like they are minor changes when they should be radically different. It feels like I'm swapping a good thing for another equally good thing, instead of making a significant tactical choice. Fittingly, I feel that the skills should all be different spices that each add a unique flavor.

Something that'll make the player really consider the consequences of the choice, like when you decide to change into beast mode with the Abomination; you cause stress to the team but gain offensive buffs. It also means you'll now have to keep an eye on his stress and health, since he can't heal on his own anymore. that is the kind of tactical thinking that's absent.

Obviously, though, the question is that a gameplay element you *want* this class to have, but that's up to you to decide of course.
Gewreid 30 Jan, 2020 @ 7:48am 
I think that the two modes both do have a place right now, especially with the switching of the modes taking an action. In a lot of fights i actually don't go into cooking mode at all. It is a healing skill that works in a particular way, rather than something that changes and defines her whole kit.
She's not a classical transforming hero like the Abomination or a lot of other modded classes but her other skills stay mostly the same and i like that.

On another Note:
I feel like the Blight applying Portion of Main Course could use some work and is just too slow to be a consideration right now.
I feel like aoe Blight is something i would want more at the beginning of the combat for it to be valuable.
It takes two turn at least to apply the Blight (more if you want to use other skills in Cooking Mode) and as she has a relatively low speed, the Ennemies are likely to have had their turn already when the blight is applied.

I'm not sure how to fix this though.
Do the Blight chance buffs persist between combats? That might already help a little.
Another idea would be to make Main Course a free action while you are in Combat Mode but that might be too strong. Would that even be possible based on how skills work and are coded?
Maybe have some skills buff the Blight chance while in combat mode and make entering cooking mode apply the blight.

I also think Occult Condiment and Entremet feel a bit too similar to me (at least in combat mode) for both to be exciting, especially with regeneration not stacking.
However, it probably directly depends on how many stuns one is facing and i might undervalue that part of the skill.
Last edited by Gewreid; 30 Jan, 2020 @ 1:38pm
Sovereign246 30 Jan, 2020 @ 2:07pm 
I think the dual mode is fine and which you use is dependent on the length of the fight. As i said its one of the things i like about her, in a short fight you can keep her combat mode and do things which are short term like pull, if its a long fight you can switch her into cook and build up a big heal/blight attack. Granted in a medium to long fight there is not really a reason to not go into cook mode right away. I also agree with Gewreid that its nice to have a more streightforwad transforming hero for a change however there could perhaps be a larger difference in how the skills operate between the two modes particualy seeing as she can only go into cook mode once a fight.
BayBot  [developer] 30 Jan, 2020 @ 4:23pm 
Thank you for your feedbakcs, that's useful - I don't know how yet but it's cool :)
The main thing I can tell about the differences between her kit, is that if I'm going to modify something, it may be to boost base speed, and reduce speed in cooking mode for the same amount. I'll find some time to test it and see if it's convincing. Maybe some skill values need some tweaks too, but I can't see that for now.
Building the blight on main course is indeed a bit difficult. It has kinda the same design as jester's finale, and is hard to get real benefits from it. But occult condiment was designed to offer a good way to boost it quickly, in order to unleash poison nuke on round 2, or a devastating nuke on round 3. I find it quite efficient, because the values can ramp up really quickly. Try it if you don't, tell me what you think.
I get that Occult condiment appears to be quite redundant with entremet in combat mode ; but this way you can heal 2 heroes per turn, with limations ofc, and you need to use it wisely to heal or to boost blight on main course. I'm pretty happy with it actually, I think it takes an important role in the decision the player has to make.
Oh btw, the idea was indeed to make the Cook to look like she's actually dropping some spices into her pot, on top of the skill she uses. We added some colored FX on the pot, depending either if you're buffing heal or blight, but it might be not really clear. We didn't want to make complex animations that could become a bit wtf.
Da Erkka 31 Jan, 2020 @ 12:24pm 
I agree with the previous comments, but I have few things to add now that I've been using the class for a while now: I think that she might almost a little too powerful, especially the "blight nuke" if you give her trinkets that increase blight chance. Maybe consider lowering the amounts of healing and blight a bit? Also, if the Main Course is supposed be similar to Jester's Finale, why not add a downside to it like with Finale? For example if you use the Main Course before combat ends, the healing will be weaker (the foods not quite ready). But if you wait until the end of combat, the healing will be better and it has additional benefits.
BayBot  [developer] 31 Jan, 2020 @ 2:17pm 
You got some points. I'll look the blight nuke dmg closely. Also, I like your idea about the heal too, and it could have taken this direction earlier, but now with actual mechanism, i'm pretty confident about forcing the player to manually launch the heal to get benefits from the buff. Incinting to stack buff to release a full party heal automatically in the end is simply not the way i want her to be played. Thanks for your ideas tho.
Chikanuk 2 Feb, 2020 @ 4:40pm 
All benefits from this class ruin this overfeed disease. +10% hp for a -2 speed is a terrible trade and its pop up too often (at least in my game). I dont have money to heal entire party everytime they come from dungeon with cook.
Consider to remove it maybe?
Also about "blight nuke at round 3" - in normal fight you dont need blight at turn 3, nuke or not. Turn 3 usually is the point where you leave 1-2 enemies to heal your team. In some cases its userful, but so far dont seems too powerful. Maybe its cuz i dont yet have max lvl cook in this save.
BayBot  [developer] 3 Feb, 2020 @ 6:38am 
I'll tweak the disease effects and chance pretty soon, but i will keep it.
The blight nuke rd 3 is often overkill, that's true, but can sometimes be useful as you said.
Keeping an eye on it.
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