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Space Engineers >  Workshop > Echthros's Workshop > Expanded Settings > Discussions
Expanded Settings
Description Discussions13 Comments353 Change Notes
mugsy 15 Sep, 2021 @ 12:59am
could grow into a must have. for everyone.
Just thinking out loud here.
You seem to lightly describe this mod as a one stop shop for game balancing, but you could go deeper.
I run a small closed server with a heavily customised experience. Our list is currently 130 mods and that is too many, so they are carefully selected over a long period of time to avoid errors, conflicts and crashes... and then the game gets an update and 25 of them are broken again.

We would very much prefer to bring the number down without losing much of the experience we have created. There are thousands of mods on the workshop that I think could be completely replaced by just this one.
A few of the mods we use;
2581525240 Better Spotlights
2448670433 increase or detector range
372138648 speedmod over 500 (still works with our selected skybox, loads of others are broken right now)
1697379908 uranium deep
i could probably straight up remove these and setup the same with ES

you have partial coverage for general game balance fairly well covered.
where i think you could expand your settings... (sorry couldn't help myself)
is this; the way i see/play space engineers, game balance is governed by cost versus reward and the limitation we have here is that for the most part we can only address one of these things per object or type.

for example;
1884828125 hydrogen rebalanced
hydrogen ship overall size with combined carry weight feels more comfortable and achievable but it needed the next mod too.
2560398825 industry block modifications
increased cost and reward to provide a legit reason to building the normally useless reskins they keep adding.
this includes thrusters, assembler, refinery and tank. i would prefer slightly higher cost on thrusters and less damping buff.
I also wish to do this with the scifi thrusters too but i cannot find a mod that isn't overpowered and stupid, so have been debating writing my own.
2569789136 Vanilla radar dish extended
server performance suffers when people build too many relays, why keen would add such a large block with no range increase is straight baffling. You should decouple the settings of this from the normal ones and include build cost options.
1985985786 laser antenna 100th
laser antenna power usage is a sore point with me, would be nice to have. i actually don't think the usage at low ranges is too bad but the curve ramps much too quickly, perhaps could have a setting to scale the power and a setting to scale the curve?
2147374699 weather be nicer
do you have any weather settings? i didn't see any, that would be good too.

If expanded settings were updated to include build costs and be able to apply to each block instead of block type that would go a long way to bring more tangible changes to a carefully balanced game within reach of server moderators in particular who really should be trying to keep mod count under control.

There is a bunch more i could add here but lets not get carried away just yet.

Are you at all interested in investing the time and effort into this kind of update or perhaps assist in paving the way for someone else to do it?
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Showing 1-8 of 8 comments
mugsy 15 Sep, 2021 @ 9:26pm 
I just had the thought that damage per weapon would be great too. since the keen update the per shot damage is far too low for character weapons. it invalidates years worth of cargo ship designs that we like to use in our spawn list.
#1
Echthros  [developer] 17 Sep, 2021 @ 1:13am 
Wow! That's quite a lot of detail. I appreciate the in-depth analysis.

Looking over your suggestions, I believe most of them are perfectly achievable with the system I'm using. The limiting factor is more a matter of identifying precisely which modifiers people will find useful to avoid overwhelming people with options, as well as presenting the interface in a way that people who are unaccustomed to editing xml can use.

The modification of block composition in particular is difficult to figure out how to present in a way that isn't cumbersome since I would either need to require the user to copy significant content from the original block definitions (if they wanted to start from the original contents and change a few things) or else include the hundreds of block compositions by default (which would be an absurdly massive file, and would require an update to the mod every time Keen add/change anything). There are a handful of things that I currently can't change at all with the method I'm using (i.e. hydrogen and uranium consumption rate for H-Engines and Reactors), but mostly it's about accessibility.

I've considered making a second mod that's even more technical than this one that allows for even more fine-tuned manipulation of block values in order to allow for exactly what you've suggested: a master tool for server admins to eliminates the need for other mods that do nothing but change block values. But I haven't gotten around to it yet.

I do plan on revisiting this one and will likely break apart a few more values (i.e. small/large grid modifiers, etc.) as well as potentially tackling the second mod I mentioned. But whether I do the second one will depend on if there are more requests for something that in-depth, because it will take quite a while to build and will be somewhat more niche than this one.

I've also been busy building a 5-planet campaign mod with my brother, and that's been eating up most of my time, so it might be a bit before I revisit this one.

If you wanted to narrow it down to a smaller handful of values to add, I'll see if I can add those at least to tide you over (=P), but the bigger stuff is going to be on hold for a bit.
#2
mugsy 17 Sep, 2021 @ 4:33am 
i would think that block composition is simpler than you think when targeted at normal users. even though i would happily attack every value you could unlock, it would be easy for most to just use a decimal or percentage the same as you are now with other settings but with rounding up or down to nearest sensible value. with percent and rounding it would be good to have difficulty components added on top. for example, if you were to include build and repair nanobots; for my server i would scale them by 2x cost but add superconductors to some selected amount of my choosing for the intended use in the server. you could have this as a manual add line that most people can ignore.

Last edited by mugsy; 19 Sep, 2021 @ 3:06pm
#3
mugsy 17 Sep, 2021 @ 4:45am 
to your final comments on what would tide me over.
separating the values of the different thruster blocks instead of just types, adding damping, and doing the same for antennas and laser antennas would be more than enough for me to balance gameplay usage... cost can come later... since we have an established world.

because cost needs to be scaled from world start if you actually need it to influence gameplay. inevitably we get to a point where we struggle to store all the stuff and cost is irrelevant.

i dont need you to rush it though. keep in mind that anyone starting afresh with some of these changes should also be doing it from the start with cost nerfs and functional buffs, or it defeats the purpose.

just trying to point out how good the mod could be.
i came across it while researching how to make my own, and yours already did almost half the stuff i wanted. considering how fiddly i am with my server setup... i thought that was amazing.
Last edited by mugsy; 17 Sep, 2021 @ 5:52am
#4
mugsy 17 Sep, 2021 @ 5:58am 
interesting that you cannot change consumption rate.
although not ideal, a simple compromise is to increase ice yield and tank storage by equivalent amounts. or just continue to use the mod i have for that.

the associated difficulty scaling is the hard part because i need control over the build costs and once i start playing with it... i'll never stop. :steamhappy:
#5
mugsy 2 Oct, 2021 @ 7:29pm 
should add hydrogen engine efficiency.
#6
mugsy 30 Sep, 2022 @ 3:17am 
just stopping by... how did your campaign plans play out?
i never saw it pop up on your workshop page.
#7
Echthros  [developer] 27 Oct, 2022 @ 4:14pm 
@mugsy Still a work in progress. Got held up by some real-life commitments, but it's still going. In the process of finishing off the 4th of the 5 planets, so the end is in sight. Need to complete the 5th planet, a few more boss fights, and go back for the polish pass. But it's definitely coming together. It'll be out at some point next year.
#8
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