Age of Wonders: Planetfall

Age of Wonders: Planetfall

Adventure Mod
Nordos/atord 17 Feb, 2021 @ 8:58am
Discussion: Skills
First of all, I really like the amount of diverse skills and their reworking, but I do have some points I would like to note:

1) Vitality. I often skill the first level of the off-skill mastery in order to gain more vitality (so, melee for a sniper for example) if I have enough points over (basically no other skills I really want).
I would rather see Improved Vitality be a sub-skill of the default vitality, instead of forcing you to choose (I generally regard First Strike as very important when skilling melee, for example, that I choose Improved Vitality near to never). It does mean that there is a need for two new skills for Melee/Ranged Specialist, though...

2) 'Heroes are not affected' skills. I kinda agree with the thought behind it, but I really, really hate that it does not affect the leader either. Skilling Offense, I often keep at level 1 to get Infantry commander when having too many heroes in the army. Or when my units are not the damage dealers, etc.

3) The replacement skills for Offense/Defense I quite like, but it feels like 'Voidtech' option (Robot Commander) is out of place (also applies to Promethean, but heavy units tend to be more often mechanical, too). First of all, it replaces infantry Shields, and Voidtech actually does have one Infantry unit (albeit the first one only). It is especially jarring, when you don't have the VoidTech secret tech. Mechanical units are already few, and non-mindless even more so.
Well, its not a big thing, its just something I found few applications for so far (especially because I tend to stay low tech).

4) I dislike having two 'army leader' type of skills in the same tier. An example is Xenoplague T2. If your hero is no army leader, both skills are useless. Ideally, each tier would have at least one ability that does require the hero to be leader.
The same is applicable to the tier skills. A celestian or psynumbra are only really useful if your hero is actually an army leader as well. It reduces the modality of your army compositions. The biggest offender is IMO the Heritor skill, because not only does it need to be an army leader, it is nigh useless outside of Heritor Secret Tech, too

and finally 5), skill balance.
So, lets first talk about Secret Tech ultis.
- VoidTech is a very very strong ulti if you are not melee. Extremly powerful IMO.
- Xenoplagues regeneration ability is also very nice and useful.
- Synthesis is also very strong, but needs to be army leader. Since the effect is quite powerful, though, I do think thats all right.
- Promethean I haven't played with it, and while 3 APs seems like too high, I don't know how it plays, so I will not comment on it.
- Heritor is based on a skill that wants you to have the Heritor Secret Tech anyway (because the Essence Charges are not as useful otherwise), so I guess it is more specialized. Again, I haven't really played with it, so I don't know how powerful having more essence charges truly is.
- Psynumbra is quite interesting, but also wants you to be Psynumbra secret tech (osynumbra units and the doctrine that leaves behind an echo when a psynumbra unit dies). It also doesn't help that you are forced to not only pick, but also use Devour Hope to attain your first Echo, which then needs to use it as well, etc. Its not a high pick for me in general, and I don't feel like I really want it even when I am Psynumbra either.
- Celestian feels terrible. Mainly because the Soul Shield it is based on feels terrible. First of, if you are not celestian, your units tend to not be Enlightened. Secondly, the Resurgance is time limited. You kinda need to somehow sacrifice it while also being useful in some way, and finally, there are a lot of ways to grant resurgance, including attaining prime rank. It feels like the worst Ulti, because even 'improved', the skill will eventually loose its relevance, is very restricted and does not enough to be worth it.

5.1)
So, having talked about the Ultis, I want to t alk about specific skills. I already mentioned one that feels extremly underwhelming:

CELESTIAN
- Soul Shield: IMO it should be redesigned, to first of all grant Resurgance until end of battle, regardless if the friendly unit is Enlightened or not. Additional, if the Unit is Enlightened, it would gain Last Stand for 1 (2 with ulti) rounds.
- Revealing Soul: It is the only way to apply Soulburn outside of the Secret Tech, and it feels ... not good enough at all. Especially, when your hero is in the back (I play a celestian sniper). It makes it far harder to actually apply Soulburn to anything. I realize that it was a vanilla skill, but I think it needs to be better. At the very least, let it also apply to the hero's attacks. Especially since Cleansing Light is a very useful skill.
- Deny the Wicked is fine except that, as I already mentioned, there are far too few ways to actually inflict soulburn outside of the Secret Tech.

PROMETHEAN
- Purging Field, if I understand it correctly, should be a 1AP ability, and not a 3AP ability
- Extermination Squad / Fallout Protocol are both army leader abilities. I would like to see Purging Field and Extermination Squad's position to be switched
- Chemical Additives: Mechanical units are few, most are either biological or cyborgs. It feels too narrow, and it can also damage your own troops.

PSNUMBRA
- Inescapable Echoes: It is too narrow IMO. If you don't have a lot of ways to Fill the enemies with Despair, it is barely useful. I would like to see it also change the Devour Hope ability if you have taken it (which seems like something that you will if you want this skill anyway) so that the Devour Hope leaves you one point instead of ending your turn.

SYNTHESIS
- Electrifying Subroutine and Assisted Breach are again two Army Leader abilities in the same tier. Both are very strong, though, and hard to redesign. Maybe allow Assisted Breach to also effect when not Army leader?

VOIDTECH
- Instability Generator is a very narrow ability, although probably quite powerful in the right build. I get that it is mainly to help to apply dimensional instability.
- Stasis Field looks quite weak to be honest. It has a decentish range, but it consuming your turn is rarely worth it. It does also only immobilize, making it a weak choice against most ranged units. I think giving the ability something similar to Dimensional Desync would be more interesting.

XENOPLAGUE
- Spore Feeding and Intuitive Evasion are, again, two Army leader abilities on the same tier.
- Caustic Smoke feels a bit weak as a T3 skill. Low range, low damage, and basically the ability of an Engulfer, which is an early T2 unit.

HERITOR
since I have not yet played with an Heritor, I won't be able to comment on the skills, but I do think that the Essence Protection skills are only ever useful when playing as Heritor, which is a bad sign.

GENERAL SKILLS
Piloting, and especially Advanced Piloting, have always felt ... overpriced. I rarely go for Advanced Piloting (it costs 8 points! The highest c ost of all skills!) if I don't find a good T4 vehicle. I personally would suggest:
- Tier 1 Vehicles can be used by anyone without Piloting skill (are there even any?)
- Piloting costs 5 points (still) and allows piloting T2 and T3 vehicles
- Avanced Piloting costs 3 points, allows piloting T4 vehicles and grants regeneration (?) [in that case, Field Repair Droid would grant not regeneration, but heal for a flat amount, similar to Self-Repair Systems mod] or something else.


I haven't yet mentioned the Race skills and such, and may do so later. I would like to discuss these skills first, because I may overlook applications for it that make them better than I thought.
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Showing 1-7 of 7 comments
Nordos/atord 17 Feb, 2021 @ 11:59am 
Okay, I still got an itching to go through the Race skills.

VANGUARD
I haven't played a Vanguard yet, but Launch Laser Drone looks very useful.
- not sure how good Rallying Cry is. Sure, it leaves you with one action point, but morale penalties are far from abundant.

both Ultis do look pretty useful, though I do admit that the Inspiration looks stronger, it also needs to be the Army leader

AMAZON
War Cry is a pretty good skill with a good range. Even level 1 often affects most units and it is a very good way to start up the battle.
- Biology Expert / Animal Discipline not only feel similar, they also both need to be Army leader.
- Ranger Training: maybe its just me, but I am not high on concealment, especially when it is limited to one terrain type AND needs to be army leader. Not gonna lie, I don't see me picking that ever

ultis: Dauntless Mounts doesn't sound that good. Maybe I am selling it short, though. It does affect a good part of the roster after all. Its just, that a bit health and psionic resistance is only really interesting when actually facing psionic damage as well, and merely okay otherwise.

ASSEMBLY
Reassembly is either extremly powerful or completely useless. It is, sadly, quite bad when your army is a biological one without cyborgs or mechanical units.
The whole race tree is too much focused on mechanic / cyborg in general (for example Battlefield Repair and Cybernetic Overdrive). As a ranged (Sniper) Assembly I only ever skill the first one to get stagger resistance (because thats really good) when fielding a biological army.
If your army does have cyborgs / mechanicals, though, the racial skill gets far, faaar better. I sadly don't have an idea how to adress this problem, though.

The ultis are pretty good, if you can find applications for it, and pretty bad (obviously) when not. They aren't skills you always want.

DVAR
Furious Attack feels a bit weak at level 1, but gets progressive better. Level 3 is pretty damn good.
- Hardiness Training / Siege Master, again two Army leading skills in one tier.
- Incentive is far too narrow, only benefiting a few units. Especially when you are not playing Dvar, this skill is basically useless. Especially when it is in the same tier as Stagger immunity ....
- Nitro Battery .... is probably fine. Still feels like it should leave 1 AP

Both ultis are quite good in my opinion. Extreme Toughness as the extension of Jaggernaut makes you nigh unstoppable. Can't be stunned, slowed or staggered.

KIRKO
Echo of the Hivemind is.... not good. Okay, I don't know if it stacks, It also seems to work when not an army leader. But. BUT. It only works for Kir'ko units. It is completely useless when you have no Kir'ko units. Shields don't sacve you in melee and you kinda need to group up, making you more vulnerable to AoE. I don't even value it highly when playing Kir'ko.
- Fury of the Swarm has a similar problem, but that is at least optional.
- Invigorating Pheromones looks quite weak. Sure, it affects all biological, but it also ONLY affects biological. 5 health? Thats not a lot. Correct me if I am wrong, but biological does not include cyborgs either. I have higher expectancy from a T3 skill.
- Guiding Hand is probably good enough, higher range can help a lot. Still would like to see it being a single action instead of a full action.

Ultis are fine, though the Guiding Hand one could very well also extend the duration to 3 turns. You often use it at the start anyway, and it is a Once per Battle ability. +1 range is pretty good, but again, it mostly matter at the beginning of the battle where you can bunch up your dudes.

SYNDICATE
Deploy Cerebral Collars are amazing. Sure, they can't be used on anything, and its actually pretty restrictive, but its good enough. Half of the battles againt non-wildlife I fought, I found at least one unit I can use it on. Even if it fails, it still disables and it easily allows you to get into position.
- Subterfuge. As I said, I am not a fan of concealment, especially when it is limited to one unit. But maybe I am wrong all along and concealment is broken.
- Strategic Operations Support. Again, not sure its useful, since you basically have to be where you want to use it.

Ulti has Subterfuge expanded and ... it may be decent. Not sure it would be worth it for me, but it at least does quite a lot now. I really like Praetorian, though.

SHARKAN
Quaking Shields is very interesting. the main catch is, that it only disrupts attacks potentially and or prevents overwatch. It is very nice that you do not need to be Army leader, though, and it can be pretty useful if RNG shines on you.
- Zardas Instructor is basically a strictly better Subterfuge. Poor Subterfuge.
- the Army Training is obviously intentional, but it leads to times when it isn't your army leader, and you only use infantry units ... you simply skip the whole T3 tree.
Domok Army Training is nearly completely superior to the Kir'Ko Pheromone skill, except you have heroes in your army. Because its not limited to biological units AND also gives them crit chance.
Zardak AT should also mention in the doc, that only non-heroes are affected.

I actually have no idea what an Insider is. Is it an Infiltrator? Is the ulti a once-per-battle skill? Does it replace the original Call on Insider?

OATHBOUND
Oracle's Protege is a very powerful skill, granting a lot of stats.
The skills divide into vehicle and non-vehicle.
- Intuitive Strikes and Oracle's Favor should IMO be switched. One is the enabler for the other. Intuitive Strikes is a surprisingly powerful skill for a ranged attacker, since they tend to keep their precognition. Still, it is not exactly easy to maintain Precognition, so it generally isn't as amazing.
- Glorious Leader seemed to be broken when I picked it. Probably pretty good when fixed. giving +400 - +600 to all units in the s tack sounds quite good.
- Overload Power Core. I never quite like it. The risk is pretty big that, if something survives, your hero does not. It also limits the type of vehicles you can use to battlesuits.

The Ultimates look very nice. Siege Runner letting you ignore overwatch has helped me quite a bit, as unassuming as it looked to be. Oracles reward also sounds pretty good on a damage dealer (especially on a single action kind of weapon and Martial Tradition heroes / maxed soldier in Empire mode)


CHANNELER SKILLS
The change of channeler skills to affect heroes instead still does not solve a c ertain problem I have with them: That they are reliant on the damage type they represent. Heroes have the tendencies to switch out weapons, something that is harder if you actually need the damage type.
I would propose to change it to let it give +1/+2 damage to that damage chann el (so, Genetics would add +1 Biochemical damage for repeating and +2 Biochemical damage for single actions).
Additional I want to mention that I still think that Elektromancer's Stunning Arcs is too strong giving stun. Each other channeler gives a debuff instead of an outright disabler. Especially the psionic debuff one is sad in comparison, it has the same strenght for a debuff that reduces accuracy, while Stunning arcs outright disables the enemy. Non-mindless non-mechanical non-Mineral also sounds far more restrictive than 'non-etherial'.
Der Mentat  [developer] 19 Feb, 2021 @ 11:52am 
Thanks again for the comments. I'll consider each of your suggestions but especially when it's about balance, I need to make my own tests first (or get feedback from other players) which again takes a lot of time. Besides, for the next weeks I'll priorize bugs and general issues from the base features (like terraforming), so don't expect an early solution ;)
Der Mentat  [developer] 6 Mar, 2021 @ 1:36pm 
Some suggestions about the first four points:

1) I can add a further vitality skill for 6 skill points. That’s still cheaper than getting Improved Vitality from the other skill tree. It would get unlocked through Basic Vitality.

2) After thinking about it for a long time, I think that Defensive Tactics is still kind of balanced when heroes are not excluded. Afterall +1 status resistance isn’t a lot and accuracy is capped at 90%. My suggestion for Offensive Tactics is to replace +5% damage through +5% critical hit chance as a small debuff. Then it should be fine to remove the restriction for this skill as well.

3) The effect on „Robots“ is actually mostly for flavour. The unique Voidtech skill is great when you use many Mechanical units because you can stack shields on them: +1 from Robot Commander and +1 from Ground Commander. For Echo Walkers Defensive Tactics is already not a good primary skill because the accuracy buff is wasted, It’s more a mid game to late game path and works especially good with Rift Generators as they are Mindless.

4) It should be possible to remove the army leader requirement always for one of the two army skills that appear on the same tier, so non-army leaders can benefit from them too. Of course, as a compensation I’d need to debuff the skills slightly. I don’t want to shift them to different tiers because that would cause other issues.

The secret tech skills are indeed designed in a way that they work better with certain hero types. Promethean is a great secret tech for melee heroes while Synthesis is intended for snipers, Voidtech and Xenoplague provide active abilites that can work for more support heavy heroes and Psynumbra and Celestian are great for army commanders. I agree though that the Heritor skill branch is worthless for non-Heritor leaders. However, it’s difficult to find a good solution as the primary skills should also relate to the Heritor playstyle and their essence mechanic.
Nordos/atord 7 Mar, 2021 @ 1:14am 
Thanks for the feedback. I am glad you are taking note of my points.

3) was just my personal gripe, so it doesn't really need to change (though I would still like a small buff to robot commander b ecause I still think it a tad too narrow)

4) Yes, Heritor is problematic. Making it too focused on Essence kills its usability outside, while defocusing looses its value and flavour.
I think that it should still synergy with Essence, but be more of an enabler instead of a payoff.
The current way to get Essences are: Energy Drain, Defense mode, transfusion (and a doctrine that lets you start with an additional essence charge).
My first (and probably imbalanced) idea would be to give your hero/all units in the army/all units in army a 4/4/6 additional strenght of applying Energy Drain (similar to Sharkan, it would be no leader skill).
Would that be too strong/hard to implement?
Der Mentat  [developer] 8 Mar, 2021 @ 12:52pm 
Increasing strength checks doesn't seem to be easily possible with hero skills. I know that there's a mod that increases strength chance for Energy Drain but IIRC the code for this cannot be applied in the same way to hero skills. The strength increases that I used for unit level ups always refered to the unit itself, so I can't use this kind of code either.

However, it would be possible to grant an Energy Drain chance with a fixed value that gets overwriten if the unit has already a better version. For example:

Level I: All units in the hero's army have a 2 entropic strength chance to apply Energy Drain. Additionally they gain +1 status effect resistance for each Essence charge they are carrying.

(The first part is mostly useless for Heritor leaders, the second part not that useful for non-Heritor leaders)

Level II: All units in the hero's army have a 4 entropic strenth chance to apply Energy Drain. Additionally they gain +2 status effect resistance for each Essence charge they are carrying.

(Similar situation as for level I)

Level III: All units in the hero's army have a 6 entropic strenth chance to apply Energy Drain. Additionally they gain +2 status effect resistance for each Essence charge they are carrying.

(The first part is now useful for all leaders because the standard mod only provides a +4 chance, so the second part stays the same)
Nordos/atord 9 Mar, 2021 @ 5:05am 
That work very well as well. As such it is both payoff and enabler.
I think a strenght 2 Energy Drain is pretty much obsolete, though. I would rather got the Sharkan way and start out with 4 strenght for the Hero into 4 Strenght for the army and finally 6 Strenght for the army.

EDIT: you said that it is possible to increase the strenght of a specific unit?
The Energy Drain Perk would be useless with the change to the Heritor Skill itself. Could it instead increase the Energy Drain by 2?
Last edited by Nordos/atord; 9 Mar, 2021 @ 5:27am
Der Mentat  [developer] 12 Mar, 2021 @ 6:08am 
Ok, I can give the hero 4 strength on level 1 and also +2 status resistance per essence charge. On level 2 this applies to the whole army and on level 3 the strength chance is increased to 6 for all.

Originally posted by Nordos/atord:
EDIT: you said that it is possible to increase the strenght of a specific unit?
The Energy Drain Perk would be useless with the change to the Heritor Skill itself. Could it instead increase the Energy Drain by 2?

In fact, this was misleading. Even for the units the strength check is actually just a replacement of the original version by a higher one (only the description phrases it as a "+4" increase).

For the Essence Seeker skill that loses the +4 energy drain effect, it could grant an improved version of the Harvest Defense Mode (instead of the regular one as currently) that would work even if the unit has already an essence charge.
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