I realize the mod is designed moreso to give pirates some piracy to do, but this also seems like a great mod to make the seas a bit more lively for other factions as well. In older titles, you would see ships or carts travelling to represent trade on the campaign map, and people could raid them to steal income from you.

If possible, one way to give coastal players a reason to care about the trade fleets being raided might be to fire an event for the owner of a port when a trade fleet docks, giving the holder a small bonus. Even if it's just a 5% tax rate boost for the turn, it'd do a fair bit towards making the world feel more alive.

You seem like a capable modder, hence the suggestion:
Not related to this mod, but can trade be reworked such that trading with huge nations show their benefit? Like If I am empire, for some reason it is MUCH better for me to have none of the dwarves confederate and trade with all of them, than have them confederate and trade with one nation. Profit should not only not drop significantly, but access to a bigger market under ONE nation, which means less bureaucracy and overhead costs, should give me MORE income.
Is there a way to mod this idea in?

Originally posted by رضا شاه روحت شاد:

You seem like a capable modder, hence the suggestion:
Not related to this mod, but can trade be reworked such that trading with huge nations show their benefit? Like If I am empire, for some reason it is MUCH better for me to have none of the dwarves confederate and trade with all of them, than have them confederate and trade with one nation. Profit should not only not drop significantly, but access to a bigger market under ONE nation, which means less bureaucracy and overhead costs, should give me MORE income.
Is there a way to mod this idea in?

Not really, trade basically works like this: You get money for each unit of a trade item you export, but factions can only export to other factions that don't have access to that resource, so larger kingdoms aren't beneficial to trade with since they have access to many resources and thus you won't make as much money trading. Its built into the engine. The update I'm working on takes the settlement level into acount, so larger more well defended empires will net higher gains (Also part of the update is that factions will get a nice bonus when fleets make it to their ports, incentivizing the player to patrol the seas and root out pirates)

Suggestion:
I always wondered how the dark elves managed to get slaves sent back to their territory, despite their battles and pillaging often being very far away. This mod helps me actualize how that happens mechanically, so kudos for the work to build this mod.

Would it be worth consideration that when a certain race's fleet gets destroyed, a penalty directly related to their economy is incurred? ie:
- Dark elves receive slave decline rate(lost slaves)/building cost penalties(slaves build buildings in DE culture, not dark elves) or even small campaign movement range(slaves move the gear of the armies)
- High elves receive hefty trade/port income penalties, as it is
- Bretonnians lose farm income(lack of seeds/feed for farmers) and small public order penalty(angry farmers/peasants)
- Empire smaller penalty to port income, trade income than the high elves, but also diplomatic relations penalty with Marienburg, Nordland, and Kislev(due to Marienburg, Dietershafen and Erengrad ports expecting protection from the Emperor. This would be a cool way to impact the goal of trying to unify the empire)
- Norscans lose growth and port income(two big parts of their development strategy, since sea raiding is very important to them)

How about roaming pirate fleets going after merchant fleets like us? Basically adding some competition/ambient threat (plus you could add living pirates via a submod of the sartosa overhaul).

Originally posted by rossco437:

How about roaming pirate fleets going after merchant fleets like us? Basically adding some competition/ambient threat (plus you could add living pirates via a submod of the sartosa overhaul).

They already do that. Not only that but Norsca and Dark Elf fleets spawned by this mod will go after merchants as well.

Idea:

If you could mod a 'stance' for the factions such as High Elves which allows us to put armies on patrol close to our ports so that if a friendly merchant fleet is attacked nearby we are given the option to defend it (same with how the Empire can send units to defend elector counts).

Regarding trade routes:
I know too little of the lore to make valid suggestions, but honestly, I can't imagine there not being trade between many ports of neighbouring countries, or even just provinces, as long as they are not at war with each other.

As for suggestions, I like what JP said. But to expand on it, currently the fleets do not offer any benefit if you do not plunder them. So if you are not a pirate, only the Vampirates really benefit from this. And you get only penalties if a fleet is attacked near your port.
Wouldn't it be more interesting if it worked both ways, meaning:
(taking High elves as example)
1. All High elves start with a friendly bonus to the High Elves fleet (say +50). This ensures you have reasons to like them.
2. You can have a trade agreement with them, or something similar.
3. The more merchant fleets there are of the allied factions (in this case most likely High Elves and Empire Merchant fleets), the bigger your trade is with them. This will give a non-pirate player (or even the AI) an incentive to protect the fleets.
4. In line with the paragraph above, fleets can take over other trade routes. As High Elves you have taken over half the world, it should replace all "local" trade routes with High Elves trading fleets. It doesn't make sense that a Dark Elf trading fleet would sail between Naggaroth and Abuin if the High elves own both. On the other hand, it would make sense that that trade route is now being used by High Elf fleets instead.
(This might mess up the fleet max per faction that has been set you)

I hope this gives you some inspiration and motivation to keep working on this wonderful mod.

Originally posted by f.c.sauer:

Regarding trade routes:
I know too little of the lore to make valid suggestions, but honestly, I can't imagine there not being trade between many ports of neighbouring countries, or even just provinces, as long as they are not at war with each other.

As for suggestions, I like what JP said. But to expand on it, currently the fleets do not offer any benefit if you do not plunder them. So if you are not a pirate, only the Vampirates really benefit from this. And you get only penalties if a fleet is attacked near your port.
Wouldn't it be more interesting if it worked both ways, meaning:
(taking High elves as example)
1. All High elves start with a friendly bonus to the High Elves fleet (say +50). This ensures you have reasons to like them.
2. You can have a trade agreement with them, or something similar.
3. The more merchant fleets there are of the allied factions (in this case most likely High Elves and Empire Merchant fleets), the bigger your trade is with them. This will give a non-pirate player (or even the AI) an incentive to protect the fleets.
4. In line with the paragraph above, fleets can take over other trade routes. As High Elves you have taken over half the world, it should replace all "local" trade routes with High Elves trading fleets. It doesn't make sense that a Dark Elf trading fleet would sail between Naggaroth and Abuin if the High elves own both. On the other hand, it would make sense that that trade route is now being used by High Elf fleets instead.
(This might mess up the fleet max per faction that has been set you)

I hope this gives you some inspiration and motivation to keep working on this wonderful mod.

These are great ideas! Many are actually already a part of the mod in fact.

1. The High Elf fleets only aggro pirate, norsca, and dark elf factions, there's no reason to adjust diplomacy with high elf factions as they will always be neutral regardless and higher diplomacy with a scripted faction like this doesn't benefit the player or ai at all.
   
2. These factions don't own ports and thus can't have trade routes. Giving them ports would not only take away a potential port from another faction but introduce all kinds of mechanics not in line with the vision of this mod, they are trading fleets meant to represent a seafaring economy, not an actual faction on the campaign.
   
3. The current algorithm for deciding trade routes is based the settlement level and buidling number of the port, as well as the "danger level" a hidden value that goes up when fleets are attacked near the port. It also makes sure that the faction that owns the port the fleet is at and the faction that owns the port it's going to aren't at war (it has a higher chance to choose a port if the two factions are allied or trading). Protecting your ports and local seas and being diplomatic will result in more fleets travelling to your ports.
   
4. The Dark Elf Slavers and Norscan Raiders behave differently from the merchant fleets. They travel to hostile territory instead of friendly territory, occasionally triggering "raids" along the way. These raids will add a debuff to any nearby settlements and increase the loot level of the raiding fleet by 1. The longer the fleet is out raiding, the higher chance it will have better loot when you attack it. When it reaches it's destination (an enemy port) it turns around and goes back to it's home port (to bring back all the loot). It will continue raiding on the way back as well. They keep their home port for their entire life cycle, so perhaps I need to add some code to find a new home if their old one is no longer valid.
   
5. You mentioned in your initial paragraph that only the Vampirates really benefit from the trade fleets. That's not the case. If you're a non pirate faction, or any faction really, and a merchant fleet stops at your port, it will give you a temporary trade and growth boost, incentivising the player to protect these fleets

Originally posted by Nanu:

Originally posted by f.c.sauer:

....

These are great ideas! Many are actually already a part of the mod in fact.

1. The High Elf fleets only aggro pirate, norsca, and dark elf factions, there's no reason to adjust diplomacy with high elf factions as they will always be neutral regardless and higher diplomacy with a scripted faction like this doesn't benefit the player or ai at all.
   
2. These factions don't own ports and thus can't have trade routes. Giving them ports would not only take away a potential port from another faction but introduce all kinds of mechanics not in line with the vision of this mod, they are trading fleets meant to represent a seafaring economy, not an actual faction on the campaign.
   
3. The current algorithm for deciding trade routes is based the settlement level and buidling number of the port, as well as the "danger level" a hidden value that goes up when fleets are attacked near the port. It also makes sure that the faction that owns the port the fleet is at and the faction that owns the port it's going to aren't at war (it has a higher chance to choose a port if the two factions are allied or trading). Protecting your ports and local seas and being diplomatic will result in more fleets travelling to your ports.
   
4. The Dark Elf Slavers and Norscan Raiders behave differently from the merchant fleets. They travel to hostile territory instead of friendly territory, occasionally triggering "raids" along the way. These raids will add a debuff to any nearby settlements and increase the loot level of the raiding fleet by 1. The longer the fleet is out raiding, the higher chance it will have better loot when you attack it. When it reaches it's destination (an enemy port) it turns around and goes back to it's home port (to bring back all the loot). It will continue raiding on the way back as well. They keep their home port for their entire life cycle, so perhaps I need to add some code to find a new home if their old one is no longer valid.
   
5. You mentioned in your initial paragraph that only the Vampirates really benefit from the trade fleets. That's not the case. If you're a non pirate faction, or any faction really, and a merchant fleet stops at your port, it will give you a temporary trade and growth boost, incentivising the player to protect these fleets

1. Great! Didn't know that!
2. Makes sense. I don't know how the backend works, but I can see there is an issue.
3+5. Ah, I never noticed this. Then again, I never looked for this. I only saw the debuffs from ships being attacked near my ports. It now shows clearly for me why I would protect those trading ships near my ports. (another this to watch...)
4. Interesting. So they give a growth and trading/loot boost as well to the owners of that port?
3a(?)+4. And yes, dynamic starting ports would make sense. What happens for instance if the port is taken over by another (not raiding) faction when the ship is out?
And more in general, dynamic trade routes are interesting. Port settlements are the ones most often changing from owner, so something that should be accounted for.

All in all, great mod, and I definitely enjoy it greatly. It makes the seas for more dynamic and lively.