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Team Fortress 2 >  Workshop > Lizard Of Oz's Workshop > Brooklynn > Discussions
Brooklynn
Description Discussions6 Comments235 Change Notes
Doki 11 May @ 3:24pm
MAP & GAMEMODE FEEDBACK
PRAISE:

- This is a feat of programming. It must have taken a lot of care and effort, and should be applauded, Great job!
- You put in the effort to give him so many of the existing taunt animations! That's going above and beyond!
- It's fun when everyone is taking the game seriously and working together.
- The maps are very balanced in terms of sniper sightlines! You did a great job with that.

DISCLAIMER:
My suggestions and ideas may not be good, and are just my opinion, and should not be taken as gospel. The observations and suggestions are NOT meant to attack or play down how much hard work the team put in. They did a wonderful job, I just thought I would bring up these concerns should the gamemode be added to casual. We want to see this gamemode the best it can possibly be.

CASUAL CONCERNS:

A pub environment is much different than dedicated servers often used to test maps. Players can be new to the game or have 10000 hours. People can not know how to do basic things, some know how to exploit everything. It should be expected that there WILL be bad actors, much like TF2C had, using friends and vote tricks to hog the civilian, and griefing as the civilian.


- TF2 was designed for people to be able to play and do their own thing and not rely on others or be forced to play a class you don't want to, so you can have fun. Some people seemed flustered that they could not capture the point, and would have to painfully wait on the mobster, which could easily just chose to not capture the point and focus on frags. Adjust capture rates so players can still cap but very very slowly, but only the VIP can provide a +10 capture rate or something like this. This makes it less confusing as to why some people can't cap the point, and makes it so that they don't have to solely rely on 1 person to do all the work, like how TF2 was designed.

- People camping the powerup can be a problem. There needs to be some way to detect someone is camping the powerup and prevent them from sniping it. An alternative is to have mobster powerup location change to 2 or 3 locations per spawn, not in one place. This is to prevent someone from not playing the game, and just waiting to get the powerup for themselves. But that might not help the situation.

- Observation: If mobster is bad or confused, but medics are up his ass the whole time, it slows down the pace significantly.

- Needs a way to prevent mobster from griefing and not doing anything, or avoiding the objective either on accident or out of confusion. This happened a lot in TF2C. Votekick is not elegant and can fail if the mobster player has a bunch of friends in the server to vote no. Maybe put the powerup on a timer? If you don't touch a capture pint within a certain amount of time, you die and the powerup is passed on. Or just make it a straight timer that stops ticking down when standing on a point. Something to stop someone from hogging the powerup or being annoying.

BROOKLYN FEEDBACK:

- Brooklyn has too many chokepoints for blu to get through. There are situations where there is only 1 way to get forward through a hallway. 1 more optional flank routes in some locations would be helpful.

- Area underneath 1st point in shipping yard area/scattered shipping container area should be altered from a dead end to another possible flank route for blu, since getting out of the spawn area is hard for them

- Red only has 1 spawn exit on 2nd stage 2nd point. This makes it easy for blu to camp. Another exit would be helpful.


THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR HARD WORK! KEEP IT UP!
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Showing 1-6 of 6 comments
Docteur Whoa  [developer] 11 May @ 6:39pm 
Brooklyn has too many chokepoints for blu to get through. There are situations where there is only 1 way to get forward through a hallway. 1 more optional flank routes in some locations would be helpful.
Yeah "unfortunately" it's kinda by design. The original map had multiple separate routes for every point and that works nice in regular A/D. Team spreading allow to try stuff differently but during playtest since only the VIP can capture I had to axe these routes in order to make the things more focused especially since in pubs players do whatever they want. Everyone was kinda going their own way. BLU must escort the Mobster and stick with him so to keep everyone around and have a coordinated efforts the side ways are really close to the main one. Result is that it can be difficult to push but the VIP has abilities to support such pushes and RED has a bigger respawn time/less regen options with the medkits on their side so it's more about applying a strong pressure for BLU and for RED to manage their resources not to waste their lives. At the moment the map is rather BLU sided in fact. Nothing really is definitive but I'm waiting to see even more demos and play more games to see how people react.

Area underneath 1st point in shipping yard area/scattered shipping container area should be altered from a dead end to another possible flank route for blu, since getting out of the spawn area is hard for them
That used to be RED's forward spawn. It's a dead end for RED to put a nest or teleporters (or spy decloack) and have some cover because it's been noted during the playtests that BLU exert immense pressure over the defense. Adding a flank for BLU here, as it was in the original map with the sewers, would basically kill RED's already thin defense completely IMO.

Red only has 1 spawn exit on 2nd stage 2nd point. This makes it easy for blu to camp. Another exit would be helpful.
That is something that can looked at, if that does prove problematic for RED. There are two spawns with a door each and normally it's a difficult point to cap, there is only 2 access via a bridge and a death hazard (train) active quite often, so BLU should have some issues with the capture.

Thanks for the feedback! I understand that the map might be a bit tight, perhaps I can look into making some of the areas larger, but I'll see with more matches.
#1
Apolitical Butter 12 May @ 11:25am 
Red team bots in the first area exit their spawn to the right instead of the left and get trapped in a corner

EDIT: Also Pyrovision is disabled but that might be either my settings or the Full Moon
Last edited by Apolitical Butter; 12 May @ 11:27am
#2
Docteur Whoa  [developer] 12 May @ 7:53pm 
Originally posted by Apolitical Butter:
Red team bots in the first area exit their spawn to the right instead of the left and get trapped in a corner

EDIT: Also Pyrovision is disabled but that might be either my settings or the Full Moon
Unfortunately at the time bots don't really support VIP so they all try to go to the origin, the center of the map. But the team said that they do plan to support bots later, it's just that at the moment they have a lot on their plate. But thanks to remind us, because I too love to play with bots!

But right now there are servers if you want to play the maps, you can find some on the map pages.
Last edited by Docteur Whoa; 12 May @ 7:54pm
#3
HamsterGabe 13 May @ 5:35am 
If I may make a suggestion to the game mode: Have the mobster's health scale a bit with the player count. With a full 24-player server his 500 HP is perfect, if it's relatively empty like 8 players then it is overwhelming, maybe 350 would be better. Otherwise it's a very fun mode and well-designed maps! :steamhappy:
#4
FoxCello79 13 May @ 10:52am 
Not sure if this is a good idea or not, but I feel like I should throw it out there for consideration. Perhaps, you get at least two lives as the VIP, that way people get to play as him a little longer. This might also mitigate the "power up camping" problem a little, but I dunno. Again, not sure if this would work, especially in a casual setting, it's just a thought.
#5
D-ray 24 May @ 6:27am 
Honestly I don't dislike the idea of a "VIP" gamemode, but I also know that it just barely works in a game like TF2.
Besides, VIP here is pretty much an handicapped Doomdsay or HAARP:
you take the pickup and use it to capture points
The end.

Call me crazy, but I would really like to see what removing the idea of a player being the VIP would do.
Like, the VIP is ALWAYS cpu.

The CPU is predictable, and at the same time offers interesting ways to engage with the players from both sides.
Sure, you don't play as the "HAHA funny mafioso" but honestly, who would?
It's just a Worse Heavy since it relies even MORE on the team.
#6
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Showing 1-6 of 6 comments
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