Company of Heroes 2

Company of Heroes 2

AOD (4) Rails and Metal
keesfluitman  [developer] 29 Nov, 2014 @ 5:30pm
Feedback in General and Balance
Feedback here.
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Showing 1-5 of 5 comments
fuff 30 Nov, 2014 @ 5:12pm 
Wave 1 spawns waaay too early, especially with the kind of units that are sent out. Tier 0 units can only perform so well against Commissars and Captains, much less chasing after them.

Anti path blocking neets to be turned down a bit, especially since the pathfinding has them walking right across the path when directed across the map. It's incredibly difficult to move units around when they take serious damage from just crossing over the pathway alone.

Great to have 4 players to have, nonetheless.
keesfluitman  [developer] 1 Dec, 2014 @ 12:20am 
commissars get pinned if the commisar is killed. Wehrmacht anti infantry mines perform really well (wipes 1 squad already). A flamer upgrade and the first "call in" unit or infantry unit can finish the other. I hope you guys tried that? If you rush tier 2 and an AC, you can catch and block the infantry at the end.
fuff 3 Dec, 2014 @ 1:01am 
Fair enough. After a bit of debilitating, and with the extra 15 seconds (thanks for the update), the first wave is much more doable without any leaks.

My complaint about the karma system and anti-blocking measures remains, though. Is there a way to set the karma system active, only when enemy units aren earby? Or perhaps some sort of other leniency measure could be implemented? Allied units should not be punished for merely trying to traverse the map, especially when pathfinding often dictates them running along the path for speed, as I previously mentioned.

In most games, my friends and I tend to lose more units from the karms system than we do the enemy waves (when palying normal). A little bit overkill in my opinion, at least for maneuvering through.



keesfluitman  [developer] 3 Dec, 2014 @ 1:50am 
Thank you for the feedback fuff. We should consider adding each other to our friends list. Since you have some good ideas!
The motivation for our karma system was large for 2 reasons:
- Without any feature to punish blocking, waves could be easily blocked, just by standing or manoeuvring in front of the waves (this is already possible against infantry). (Wrecks used to too, we made a scriptfunction that removes them every 0.5s).
- Setting enemy tanks on Heavy Crush, and friendly Vehicles on Crushable (like a KT could run over a sherman in CoH1) simply did not work.

So as you see, karma was our only way to go. I do have to say you're right on three things, we already implemented 2:
- Karma is unnecessary between waves. Therefore, the next update, online in the next couple of days / week, will make this setable per map. Thus it is mostly turned off between waves. (not for expert)
- Retreating units dieing of Karma is a pain: thus we also disabled this. It is already implemented in our testversion, ready for the update.
Lastly, that units being karmad without being near enemy units.
- Currently we have not thought about that. It might make things more complicated, but there are possibilities.

Furthermore, I do realise that some people have trouble that the pathing is not really counting with our karma (you should see AI units die when you play with them). But we also think YOU should pay attention and always send units across before you move further. There are plenty of UI icons and sounds that warn you. Of course this isn't a solution for non-competitive players that have less micro. (not saying you are, or being insultive).

edit.
Discussed it with littleBIT and he agrees. A range on enemy units will be a good way to make it less punishing. We're working on it!
Last edited by keesfluitman; 3 Dec, 2014 @ 2:21am
fuff 3 Dec, 2014 @ 8:01pm 
Thanks for considering my feedback! Gonna respond in the order of what you posted:

The karma system is totally understandable, and I have no objection to its existence whatsoever. It's a necessary measure required within the mod's threshold and objectives as a game mode. I'm sorry to hear about the crushing thing, by the way. That would have been cool, but alas, undoubtedly easier said than done.

I'm glad to hear about the upcoming updates for implementation. It'll definitely be much appreciated, as far as measures taken for leniency goes, so thanks. I asked about karma happening near enemy units because I wasn't sure if it was mechanically possible, but it must be according to your edit, so yay!

I also concur that the player has to take some charge with micro/managing units, as is the standard of an RTS game. I personally have no issue with microing them safely across the path, after realizing the regular pathfinding was hazardous, though I can only say the same so much about some of the friends I play the map with, lol. No offense taken there, by the way.

My complaint about the subject then, is that units start immediately taking damage, and end up with a bit of chipped health, regardless of how carefully or quickly I had them cross the karma-area pathway. Perhaps if the 'karma near enemy units' is too complicated, a longer delay before units take damage on the karma path would be plausible?

Also yes, the AI has a tendency to park all its units right in the path and its hilarious.


Last edited by fuff; 3 Dec, 2014 @ 8:07pm
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