I vote yes. One reason why: In the Creation Kit, the race for every Forsworn NPC is Breton. So if what looks like a duck and talks like a duck is a duck, then what looks like a Breton and talks like a Breton is a Breton!

But I could be wrong, and would really like to hear why others disagree.

:)

Forsworn are not representative of Breton culture, be Bretons in the game as they may. the issue isn't whether or not Forsworn are all Bretons, it's are all Bretons Forsworn? The answer, like the other guy posted on the mod earlier, is no, not all Bretons are Forsworn.

Banquo: Yes, good point!

Originally posted by Banquo:

Forsworn are not representative of Breton culture, be Bretons in the game as they may. the issue isn't whether or not Forsworn are all Bretons, it's are all Bretons Forsworn? The answer, like the other guy posted on the mod earlier, is no, not all Bretons are Forsworn.

So the name of the mod is Amazing Race Tweaks! Breton. If the question is: "Did the mod tweak the wrong race?" the answer is: "No. All Forsworn are Breton."

But if the question is: "Did the mod tweak the wrong culture?" the answer is: "Maybe, but it's not called Amazing Culture Tweaks!" I guess a culture does not a race make. Right? (Just having fun figuring this out.)

The optimal solution would be splitting forsworn to a separate "race". This way you can give them fitting perks from scratch; while still getting the real breton culture in another installment.

That's my opinion anyway.

EDIT:
As the forsworn in fact is supposed to be the natives of the reach; not bretons, splitting them would again make sense.

6359:

Well, I don't think you are saying a person's culture is his race, and since the name of the mod is not Amazing Culture Tweaks! what a person's culture is really has nothing to do with the mod. The mod is about enhancing the abilities and powers of a race, not improving the culture of the player!

So my question is this: Is Breton a true race? Or is it a blending of races? Bretons are pretty much anyone who is half elf and half human. Aren't they?

The first Breton was probably made when an Imperial dude fell head over heals for a High Elf golden-skinned beauty and made a family. But are Imperials and High Elves the only ones who produced Breton offspring? What about the Orc chick who overpowered an Imperial slave and made one strong-armed babe? Isn't their daughter a Breton, too? Or say a Dark Elf seduces a dark skinned Imperial princess. Isn't their son also a Breton?

So perhaps the argument is that a true Breton is one who has only Imperial blood on his human side. But I have to ask: Why? Why does having a Nord mother suddenly turn the child of a Breton father into a non-Breton bas-tard? Isn't that kind of thinking prejudice and about as bad as the bigotry of the Thalmor who claim to keep their race pure?

Yeah, I think the Forsworn of Skyrim have much to teach us about racism.

the forswoen are bretons, just because not all bretons arent forsworn, does not make the forsworn a seperate race. look at it like this some muslims are terrorists but most muslims are not terrorists -----im spelling something wrong here i know :(----- also i know you dont have to be muslim to be a radical activist i was using it as an example, wasnt the first one that popped up in my head but it was the most fitting. and yes muslimism isnt a race hahahah but niether is the forsworn and since we live on a planet with only one "huminoid" race i went and used a religius sect rather then try to think of something else :)

Blown Wolf: I know! Right? Forsworn isn't a race. It's a culture. You can't change your race, but you can change your culture. It's apples and cabbages. Two different things. So the mod really is for the Breton race.

I think some players got bent out of shape with they saw the character making Forsworn armor and weapons. But the armor is really just a small part of the mod.

ahhaha dont let ignorance ruin your mod sprockates if you hadnt mad imperials so much fun with swords i would be playing my breton more ahhahahha

No, nothing is ruined. I'm just surprised. :)

sp0ckrates,

I think your work to date has been terrific. This last installment of your ART series seems a bit off to me, though.

It may be that Bethesda has assigned 'Breton' to be the racial base for the Forsworn as a convenience--instead of creating a whole new race. One cannot choose to be Forsworn at the start of the game; one can choose to be a Breton.

I think they might have picked the Breton race to the base for the Forsworn because they are racially similar to Nords but not quite the same.

The characteristics I look for in a Breton (having played Oblivion and Skyrim for many hours) are: superior abilities in Restoration and Conjuration, Magic Resistance, Physical Damage Resistance (from Oblivion), and the general bearing/demeanor of a classic D&D cleric-type character. Hannibal Traven (the old head of the Oblivion era Mage's Guild and author of one of the arcane skill improving books in Skyrim) is the arch-type for the Breton, IMHO.

In a perfect world, I guess I would change the name of your latest ART offering to: Amazing Race Tweaks! Forsworn; with a sub-title: Change your Breton character into a super-charged Forsworn character!

Then, I would respectfully ask that you return to the drawing board to create a purist's version of Amazing Race Tweaks! Breton...

Perhaps, I am in a minority, but I don't quite understand the connection between the breton race and the forsworn. I thought the forsworn were a faction.

I would mostly agree with Hellomynameis' comment in that the tribal name Forsworn is indeed an actual historical faction with it's roots in the reach. However the people of the Forsworn could still be from the Breton racial lineage in saying that, having migrated to Skyrim in a previous age. Therefore no harm is done in using the original concept of the author in that the Forsworn are 'Tribal migrant Bretons!

Originally posted by Blown Wolf:

the forswoen are bretons, just because not all bretons arent forsworn, does not make the forsworn a seperate race. look at it like this some muslims are terrorists but most muslims are not terrorists -----im spelling something wrong here i know :(----- also i know you dont have to be muslim to be a radical activist i was using it as an example, wasnt the first one that popped up in my head but it was the most fitting. and yes muslimism isnt a race hahahah but niether is the forsworn and since we live on a planet with only one "huminoid" race i went and used a religius sect rather then try to think of something else :)

As racial perks can't really be applied in the real world, this example might seem a bit weird; but eh you get the point.

Let's say you have Muslims and Radical activists as in the example above. Why distinguish muslims in general with something that ONLY applies to the radicals? That's where I think this mod have failed.

Originally posted by oldgreymane:

sp0ckrates,

I think your work to date has been terrific. This last installment of your ART series seems a bit off to me, though.

Thanks.

It may be that Bethesda has assigned 'Breton' to be the racial base for the Forsworn as a convenience--instead of creating a whole new race. One cannot choose to be Forsworn at the start of the game; one can choose to be a Breton.

I think they might have picked the Breton race to the base for the Forsworn because they are racially similar to Nords but not quite the same.

Well, the word Forsworn means, "to reject or renounce under oath," which describes the political objectives of the Madmen of the Reach. But I'm not sure this makes them a different race. The Skyrim wikis seem to agree the Forsworn are a biracial mix of Breton and Nord.

The characteristics I look for in a Breton (having played Oblivion and Skyrim for many hours) are: superior abilities in Restoration and Conjuration,

Perhaps you didn't read the description of the mod? This mod lets Bretons learn Conjuration skills faster, and Conjuration spells cost less to cast, are stronger and last longer. In addition, it increases the number of creatures a Breton can conjure from 5 to 20, giving you four times the number.

Magic Resistance, Physical Damage Resistance (from Oblivion), and the general bearing/demeanor of a classic D&D cleric-type character. Hannibal Traven (the old head of the Oblivion era Mage's Guild and author of one of the arcane skill improving books in Skyrim) is the arch-type for the Breton, IMHO.

This mod doubles your magic resistance, making it 50% when you use the Dragonskin power. It also brings back the resistance to damage, as the new power gives you a 20% resistance to all melee, archery and unarmed damage. It also boosts stamina when the power is used.

In a perfect world, I guess I would change the name of your latest ART offering to: Amazing Race Tweaks! Forsworn; with a sub-title: Change your Breton character into a super-charged Forsworn character!

Forsworn is not a race, so I guess I could make a mod called Amazing Faction Tweaks! Forsworn if enough people request it. Since there is no Forsworn race, Amazing Race Tweaks! Breton will have to do.

Then, I would respectfully ask that you return to the drawing board to create a purist's version of Amazing Race Tweaks! Breton...

If you can convince me that Forsworn are not Breton, I'll seriously consider it. But tell me, what would you change in this mod, besides removing the ability to make new weapons and armor? Would you remove the power to transform into other creatures? If so, what race should I give this power to and why?

Thanks for your comments. I enjoyed considering them.