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Space Engineers >  Workshop > DraygoKorvan's Workshop > Aerodynamic Physics > Discussions
Aerodynamic Physics
Description Discussions35 Comments3514 Change Notes
DraygoKorvan  [developer] 8 Dec, 2015 @ 10:47pm
Too Much, Too Little or Just Right
I have no real idea what the community would want as far as how 'much' drag should be applied to your ship. At this current stage you might not really feel it if you play with a speed cap of 104.4 m/s because it is unlikely you will reach your terminal velocity.

For the small ship in my video the terminal velocity was around 350 m/s with the current settings. The drag force in this mod is multiplied by 10 as is over what it would be in real life. Although in game we have speed caps and much smaller planets than reality.

I am comfortable adjusting this in the coming week. After the week is up I might release 1 or 2 more submods of this one with different settings.

Current Math:

D = (Cd * r * V^2 * A ) / 2

D = Drag Force (this is a force, it is applied to the craft with the opposite vector as the crafts direction of travel, mass impacts the delta v applied to the craft)
Cd= 1/2
r = density of the air at your particular elevation
V^2 = velocity squared
A = Surface area of your ship that faces the direction of travel

Force Applied = D * mult-setting/100 * max-speed-factor
(updated 12/11)

mult-setting is the setting of your /drag-mult - 500 is a realistic setting for max speed mods! Use 100 for realistic if your max speed is 104.4.
max-speed-factor is between 1 and 0.2
Last edited by DraygoKorvan; 11 Dec, 2015 @ 5:12pm
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Showing 1-15 of 72 comments
Engi 9 Dec, 2015 @ 11:28am 
Please, do a realistic one. I'd love to test that.
#1
Engi 9 Dec, 2015 @ 11:30am 
Even if terminal velocity can't be reached with the speed cap on more realistic drag settings, it will still slow you down when you are coasting and will cost you more energy to move in atmo, which is more realistic.
#2
Engi 9 Dec, 2015 @ 12:27pm 
I've tested two ships so far wtih this mod and it is barely noticable. I have the mindspace speed unlimited mod. One ship is very sleek and the other is a brick. Both small ships. I could not find terminal velocity with the sleek one. I went all the way to 900+ m/s. I turned off forward thrusters so that they would not cause me to decelerate and was careful to keep myself level to gravity with the attitude indicator so that gravity would neither accelerate nor decelerate me forward. At very high speeds I notice a little slowing but at low speeds, very little slowing. I am a pilot IRL and an engineer and there should be more drag at those speeds especially if you multiplied it by ten. What coefficient did you use? How are you taking the shape of the object into account? I'd be happy to help you test this mod to help improve it.

Or maybe I'm doing something wrong? Would other mods affect it? Based on your description, I should be having much different results
Last edited by Engi; 9 Dec, 2015 @ 12:28pm
#3
LowBitLovecraft 9 Dec, 2015 @ 12:32pm 
As a slowpoke 104.4 vanilla player I can confirm that this mod doesn't seem to have any effect on aircraft (although I'd love to see a version that does).
#4
DraygoKorvan  [developer] 9 Dec, 2015 @ 3:28pm 
Originally posted by KC Pilot:
I've tested two ships so far wtih this mod and it is barely noticable. I have the mindspace speed unlimited mod. One ship is very sleek and the other is a brick. Both small ships. I could not find terminal velocity with the sleek one. I went all the way to 900+ m/s. I turned off forward thrusters so that they would not cause me to decelerate and was careful to keep myself level to gravity with the attitude indicator so that gravity would neither accelerate nor decelerate me forward. At very high speeds I notice a little slowing but at low speeds, very little slowing. I am a pilot IRL and an engineer and there should be more drag at those speeds especially if you multiplied it by ten. What coefficient did you use? How are you taking the shape of the object into account? I'd be happy to help you test this mod to help improve it.

Or maybe I'm doing something wrong? Would other mods affect it? Based on your description, I should be having much different results
Other mods could potentially impact it. The craft I used in my video had a terminal velocity of 350 m/s and thats with current settings.

Thing is you have to remember when comparing SE to real life is that in SE you are flying a very heavy ship compared to real life aircraft which are made as light as possible without compromising safety (too much). Ill put the formula in the start of the thread, i put it in a comment earlier.

The lighter it is the more impact drag is going to have on it. Drag is a force, and it takes more force to change the velocity of a massive object. The more massive the object the less velocity change you will feel.

This was part of the reason i multiplied it by 10 to begin with. Even then its probably not making up for the pure mass of SE craft.

Also note that the atmoshperic density has a large impact on the drag. If you are flying at high altitude you are going to experience less drag than if you hugged the ground.
Last edited by DraygoKorvan; 9 Dec, 2015 @ 3:33pm
#5
DraygoKorvan  [developer] 9 Dec, 2015 @ 3:32pm 
I am going to release an update to multiply this force by 5 (so 50 total), it should have a more noticeable impact. Ill mark when i make the change. Keep in mind I will make a few adjustments to this mod in this first week until we reach a decent 'feel'. Then release subversions with other settings for those that want a purist form of drag.
Last edited by DraygoKorvan; 9 Dec, 2015 @ 3:45pm
#6
DraygoKorvan  [developer] 9 Dec, 2015 @ 4:32pm 
I did some toying around and i put it at a force multiplier of 800, you should now obviously see the effects in atmosphere. This might be the right balance for a speed cap of 104.4.
#7
Engi 9 Dec, 2015 @ 5:35pm 
I didn't think about mass and how it would relate to it. That's a good point, the inertia resisting the drag. When you say terminal velocity do you mean straight down no thrust just being pulled by gravity or top speed horizontally with thrusters? I would assume the first as that makes more sense with the meaning of the phrase.
#8
Engi 9 Dec, 2015 @ 5:40pm 
What speed mod do you use? That is the only mod I could think would have any affect on it based on how little I know about programming of course. Trying your new settings now.
#9
Engi 9 Dec, 2015 @ 5:45pm 
Ok, so now I can tell its working. That is really strong, I tapped out at 130m/s with one of my very sleek fighter ships. I think that would be a little to strong even with the stock speed. The feel of the speed bleeding off so quickly below 104m/s seems too strong in my opinion. I will try with some other ships and rockets now and see how they feel.
#10
DraygoKorvan  [developer] 9 Dec, 2015 @ 5:57pm 
Terminal velocity would be the maximum speed your ship reaches when in unpowered freefall :) I do want this base mod to be at a good point for the base game, and push out another one for people with speed mods.
#11
DraygoKorvan  [developer] 9 Dec, 2015 @ 5:58pm 
I do agree that it might be a bit too strong. I think i will tap it back some but I want some more feedback on it.
#12
Engi 9 Dec, 2015 @ 6:56pm 
Ok so I just made a fake F-15, actually turned out nice I think. Has very similar specs to a real one includeing length (-4m), wingspan (+1.5m), weight (+159kg) and thrust with afterburners (+50kN). And its maximum level forward speed is 47 m/s. It should be around 400m/s. I am assuming low altitude performance specs on the F-15 of 1450 km/h according to wiki. I think this would be an interesting benchmark. I have included link to the blueprint here:

https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=572471771
#13
DraygoKorvan  [developer] 9 Dec, 2015 @ 7:12pm 
I think 47 is too low, i think i would aim around 98 m/s for that craft for this version of the mod. After i get this tweaked right for 104.4 m/s ill make another for people running without speed caps or at least higher speed caps. I'm about to tweak it a little ill let you know.
#14
DraygoKorvan  [developer] 9 Dec, 2015 @ 7:28pm 
I dropped it to 450 after some testing, tell me how it feels now?
#15
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