Homeworld Remastered Collection

Homeworld Remastered Collection

Homeworld Fulcrum 0.3.0.1
ricochet_29 4 Mar, 2018 @ 10:57pm
Faction balancing?
Hello, I have to say, I just downloaded the mod & thus far I am impressed.. The ships are new, improved, & have an intruiging variety of capabilities.

I am curious about one thing, however, & I was wondering if I might get some clarification.

In the original HMRM ( HW2 ) the Vaygr & Hiigarans are basically very much the same except for the Vaygr having access to a less advanced hyperdrive yet more flexibility & more tactical mobility & flexibility - AKA, hyperspace gates.

The Hiigarans can build frigates, corvettes, & fighters with their carriers - Vaygr carriers can choose which of 3 facilities to build at a time..

In your "Fulcrum" mod, the Hiigarans seem to be extremely overpowered in many ways compared to the Vaygr.. Their Mothership is armed ( to the teeth - it seems like a battlecruiser ) they can build multiple ships all at the same time, & their build & research times are notably faster than the Vaygr.

As with HW2, your Hiigaran carriers can build anything except Mothership level ships such as destroyers, etc..

Vaygr carriers - I noticed that there were different types - with different building capabilities. The moreso expensive carrier is comparable to a Hiigaran version in terms of capabilities.

The Hiigaran destroyers & frigates seem quite overpowered in terms of both firepower & durability versus their Vaygr counterparts.. What is more, the Vaygr ships are slower, if not the same speed as their Hiigaran counterparts..

I just got out of the game after trying out both factions. ( Vaygr last, ) I have to say that I was expecting the balancing between the two factions to be a little more **FAIR?**

The Vaygr's research times are comparable, yet nothing to really write about.. Their ship construction times, notably their capital ships, is *incredibly slow*.. I would estimate that the capital ships were built at a pace that was approximately 20 minutes for a single ship..

So I come to my core question - What was the planning that went through the developer's mind when the factions balancing was discussed & programmed ?

The Hiigarans seem to be a "god" faction - the Vaygr happen to have even more limited capabilities, less mobility, slower speed, "unarmed" Mothership ( in comparison to the Hiigaran M.S! ) slower production, & their ships are not equals in terms of staying power.. As if that is not enough, one would expect that if ships do not have durability, are they then build for raiding in terms of better firepower ? No, that does not seem to be the case..

In the original HW2 & HWRM, the different factions have a number of different strengths, yet each are balanced to counter one another in specific & balanced ways.

So I have to ask, since my observations have me confused as to the balancing - is the Vaygr incomplete, or is this the final product, or will "tweaking" be involved before the detailing of all the remaining ships is complete ?

Please excuse the tone of my discussion - I enjoyed playing both factions, yet upon playing as the Vaygr I could not - for the life of me - figure out which strengths the Vaygr had versus a seemingly "god mode" Hiigaran faction.. I am impressed with your mod & the detail, I thought you'd appreciate some input on what seems to be a glaring issue..

Peace.
Last edited by ricochet_29; 4 Mar, 2018 @ 11:14pm
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EatThePath  [developer] 5 Mar, 2018 @ 1:06pm 
I'm primarily responsible for the current state of skirmish mode, so I can answer most of your questions. First I'll say that I don't take issue with your tone, I appreciate the amount of effort you put into your post and am heartened by the interest in the project that implies.

The primary factor at play is simply that it's all unfinished. For instance, the two factions you see in the game currently are formed out of a planned five or more, condensed down to cover some of the gaps in their rosters. The Vaygr faction presented in the current version contains elements of the Vaygr, confederate Taiidani, and Frerrn fleets, all of which should have their own strengths and weaknesses.

Some of what you see is also experimental. For lore/story reasons we don't want to give the UNH another derpy unarmed mothership, so we've been experimenting with different ways to implement a powerful mothership that isn't game-breaking. The version in release right now doesn't achieve the second half of that goal, honestly. Many things, like the UNH build queues, were implemented to see if they work, but never continued to their logical conclusions.

Finally, we don't end up spending very much of our time with the mod actually playing it, at least not in skirmish mode. Over the last few years my time with Fulcrum has mainly gone to gameplay development of one sort or another, most visibly productive in the Patrol of the Lihaal Adar mission. The rest of our team is primarily focused on art production, which eats a lot of time. I hope that doesn't come off as an attempt at an excuse, as the state of skirmish balance is something I'm definitely unhappy with, but it is the state of things.
ricochet_29 5 Mar, 2018 @ 1:59pm 
I appreciate the response - I figured that skirmish mode would be the most efficient method to guage the playing style of both factions in a fair manner.

As for lore, while normally I am the sort of person to be interested in such things, in this case of your mod being unfinished, I will restrain my enthusiasm until the mod is completed. I'd enjoy being surprised by the lore rather than with spoilers. From the sutble hints of descriptions within the research tab of technology that I was reading, I suspect that this mod will be a huge hit.

The weapons effects & the new ships of the Vaygr in particular - the certain capital ship that had multiple, burst - rapid fire, ion beam effects - *that did pique my interest.* I was a little shocked to see that it seemed really quite fragile as a capital ship though - only a few UNH frigates seemed to be able to take it out rather quickly. ( You know your programming better than I do, of course! )

I see what you mean with build queues with the UNH. I have to admit that after seeing the queues, I was actually taken aback. Had wondered that if the UNF had that standard of a finished, regular build speed.. - I was starting to really wonder what sort of exotic flavour of capabilities the Vaygr would have when I was playing as the UNH first..

I'm guessing then, that the UNH Mothership's build speeds will be toned down to be comparable with the Vaygr's, or a balance between the two fast & slow speeds would be figured out, then, I suppose..

The armed UNH Mothership - I have to say - I am impressed with the design. It resembles a sleek battleship. When the detail work is completed, I suspect it will be exemplary work.
It seemed ( at least to me, ) that the design was a bit of a nod of how the HW: Cataclysm mining vessel was evolved into a warship over the course of the campaign.

On the note of the Vaygr mothership, I couldn't help but notice that when I looked at the icon sideways ( in the lower left part of the screen ) that the Vaygr throne-ship icon has a particularly strong reason for it's name - at least from what I thought the icon resembled visually.. That's witty & brilliant for the lore, actually.

Looking forward to viewing the finished detail work on the Vaygr mothership as well..


As for your suggesting that your explanation is an excuse, no, not at all.. I can empathize, & sympathize. You have a life outside of work, ( possibly school ) & while gaming is important to us 'puter gamers, one cannot live their life on a computer.


I am an amateur map creator / editor with Starcraft 2. I say amateur, as I follow tutorials badly. I'm not a computer programmer nor modder, just a regular joe with some interest in gaming & a desire to learn.

On a more HW2 related subject, I haven't quite figured out how to add my own maps into the HW2 maps list as of yet to test them. Perhaps I'm overcomplicating one or two of the steps in the sense that the filename is not recognised, etc, as mentioned in a tutorial - or they're simply typed out wrong.. ( Guess I need a moreso simplistic tutorial spelled out like some people.. lol )

I have a bad habit of taking forever with maps - tweaking the programming correctly, incorporating details to my specifications, reset the map to proper balancing melee rules, then keep tweaking. My HW2 maps, however, do not take that long to create - I think it is mostly due to the lack of complexity of the HW2 map editor versus the Starcraft 2 Galaxy editor.

I think I only have one Starcraft 2 map where it is a *near* absolute perfect version of how I want it in a matter of months worth of work - only because I keep getting new ideas & keep going back to it. ( Out of a collection of at least 15 ideas on the proverbial drawing board, ) - So I trust that you understand that I sympathize with the difficulties that you're going through..

Although I can only imagine that the difficulties you are going through are far more complex than simply *one* map. That said, I can gather that you have a design *TEAM,* versus one amateur map creator.. lol.

Anyhooz..

So, yes.. Please keep up the great work, & thank you again for taking time out of your day to respond.
Last edited by ricochet_29; 5 Mar, 2018 @ 2:27pm
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