I absolutely agree with this (@ mod author "Corley") regarding what is being said by "[AKA] >9K" with Outlander Balance.

I have just returned from playing vanilla Outlander the other day and I must say I'm glad for the changes this mod makes.

I also believe the Outlander in this mod requires further balance changes to make it the class it was always meant to be. ^_^

And I believe the points made in this Discussion are very good.

Thxxx, also i jsut noticed last part of the post got deleted. Idk what happened. Fixed it (few suggestions for Rapid fire)

Okay guys, lots of good feedback here which I am keen to implement - please check below I have read and understood correctly what you wish me to change/add before I get to involved as my time this week is kind of limited, but I could do the below changes fairly quickly!

Swap blade pact and shadow shot position on skill tab

Strafe
Deals both dps and magical damage, make the magical damage physical damage so it is linked to STR? The feedback I have so far is this skill may need a little DPS increase - what are your thoughts? i want it to be a solid alternative to the other end game skills

Rapid Fire
i am liking all the ideas my Favourite aswell is to give the ability to Proc weapon / gems procs so you can totally customise your weapon and this skill.

Chaos Burst
Lots of good ideas suggested so I am a little stuck which to choose, but I am inclined to lean towards the blind/CC affect as the skill has a chance at tier 2 to add a poison effect

Originally posted by Corley:

Okay guys, lots of good feedback here which I am keen to implement - please check below I have read and understood correctly what you wish me to change

Originally posted by Corley:

Swap blade pact and shadow shot position on skill tab

Yes. Please swap the unlock levels too.

Originally posted by Corley:

Strafe
Deals both dps and magical damage, make the magical damage physical damage so it is linked to STR? The feedback I have so far is this skill may need a little DPS increase - what are your thoughts? i want it to be a solid alternative to the other end game skills

Strength affects DPS while Focus affects anything not DPS unless it's "DPS as Elemental Type" in which case it gets affected by both.

The game says Strength affects physical damage on weapons however Skills act different.

Changing it's flat damage type to Physical still gets affected by Focus.

It's actually a question of whether a Skill is based on DPS or Skill Damage or both.

Originally posted by Corley:

Rapid Fire
i am liking all the ideas my Favourite aswell is to give the ability to Proc weapon / gems procs so you can totally customise your weapon and this skill.

Agreed. ^_^

Originally posted by Corley:

Chaos Burst
Lots of good ideas suggested so I am a little stuck which to choose, but I am inclined to lean towards the blind/CC affect as the skill has a chance at tier 2 to add a poison effect

"CC" basically means "Slow" like "Frozen Effect" which is fair while "Blind" is a very powerful status where foes can't attack even if they should be able to.

It is possible to "Blind Lock" an enemy which is a term that emerged from Torchlight forums regarding a foe that is repeatedly blinded out of the fight making it similar to "Stun" or "Immobile" effects.

Glado to help!!! I always wanted TL2 to become the most greatest ARPG and i have great hopes on this mod to fix the small issues that kept it from being absolutely perfect ^^

fisrt of all thx to both of u for such quick reply and interest-

Originally posted by Corley:

Okay guys, lots of good feedback here which I am keen to implement - please check below I have read and understood correctly what you wish me to change/add before I get to involved as my time this week is kind of limited, but I could do the below changes fairly quickly!

Swap blade pact and shadow shot position on skill tab [/quote]

Yep, not jsut place but level recquirement. The point is to make Shadow Shot an available option from the beggining to use as default attack. If it feels too OP at fisrt compared with the other 2 options (glaive throw and rapid fire) it could be always tweaked a bit to make it less powerfull at early levels and getting full power at it first tier (5 skill points) REWORKED; WORKING FINE ATM

Originally posted by Corley :

Strafe
Deals both dps and magical damage, make the magical damage physical damage so it is linked to STR? The feedback I have so far is this skill may need a little DPS increase - what are your thoughts? i want it to be a solid alternative to the other end game skills

I havent tried Strafe yet (not enough level, may hack a character and see it) I just wanted to point that, to rivalize with VenomHail, it has to be really powerful, but still it should have a different "use" so in the end VenHail and Strafe are 2 very powerfull skilsl but with different aiming. REWORKED, WORKING FINE ATM



Steffire already pointed it about damage types, i guess thats known but still i would like to adress clarify it,

Point is VenHail does "XX weapon DPS as poison" -

FOC icnreases Elemental Damage. Any of it. As bonus, it increases chance to Execute (hit with 2 weapons at once, boosting greatly damage if using 2 one handed weapons, as pistols) ALSO it increases your MP, wich is good, and not only that. Every character has a MP regen equal to 4% of its HP, so you also increase your MP regen, wich is neat.


Now, the point on damage is:

IF a skill or weapon (like wands) does "17-24 elemental damage" OR FIXED PHYSICAL DAMAGE (where elemental is poison, fire... whatever) - it scales with FOCUS

IF a skill does "25% Weapon DPS" - Then it depends on the weapon damage.

- If Weapon does Physical Damage, then the skill damage is depending on STR
- If weapon does Elemental Damage (most of wands, but
still any weapon has a hance of it)
it scales with Focus

- If a weapon does "Weapon DPS as elemental damage" Then:
-If weapon is physical dmg, it benefits from BOTH. STR cz boost the base physical
damage of weapon, and FOCUS cz it increases damage when converted to Elemental.
(THATS THE HUGE ADVANTAGE OF VENHAIL, IT IS WORTH WITH ANY BUILD,
STR OR FOCUS)

- If Weapon does elemental damage, it benefits from Focus "2 times" (it boost the base
weapon damage and also the conversion, still it should be tested)

Whatever the point is that "Weapon as elemental" benefit equally from STR or FOC

As said VenHail benefits from whatever, so i´d suggest Strafe to also do "weapon as elemental" to make it viable for both FOC or STR builds.

Still, the most viable way i see for it to compete with venhail without being "the same" would be to make it a real nuke with higer cooldown.

An advantage of VenHail is that it allows you to shoot wherever you want, as its "a rain from above" you dont need a straight line or whatever. Thats REALLY useful

So maybe just make strafe "line based" (affected by walls and such) but having heavier damage would work. Maybe do it somehow like a overpowered version of Rapid Fire or like the Embermage "Arch Beam", it "ray" attack wich can only attack on straight line and is affected by walls. [/strafe]

-Some useful info on how damage types works on another post-


[SUGGESTION FOR STRAFE]

-What about Strafe being a channeled skill (like arch beam) so you have to stay static, wich damage gets increased each second. So you start shooting, and it starts low damage, but after 3 seconds it does a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ damage (above venemous hail)

So in the end the choice would be:

¿Do i want a lesser nuke wich i can shoot elsewhere, so i gain tactical / strategic advantage and mobility, or do i want a heavy nuke wich recquires a clear line and chaneling being static for few seconds?

Mobility and tactical advantage VS overwhelming cannon. Sounds nice to me.

REWORKED, WORKING FINE ATM

Originally posted by Corley :

Rapid Fire
i am liking all the ideas my Favourite aswell is to give the ability to Proc weapon / gems procs so you can totally customise your weapon and this skill.

Yep me too. I´d also set its distance to 10 mts initial to 15 on tier 1 (actually 7 to 12)
Just to make it more comfortable to use, even more as the camera in the mod has been adjusted to show more distance. (7 and 12 feels so short)

REWORKED, WORKING FINE ATM


Chaos Burst
Lots of good ideas suggested so I am a little stuck which to choose, but I am inclined to lean towards the blind/CC affect as the skill has a chance at tier 2 to add a poison effect [/quote]

Originally posted by Steffire3 :

"CC" basically means "Slow" like "Frozen Effect" which is fair while "Blind" is a very powerful status where foes can't attack even if they should be able to.

It is possible to "Blind Lock" an enemy which is a term that emerged from Torchlight forums regarding a foe that is repeatedly blinded out of the fight making it similar to "Stun" or "Immobile" effects.

Nice point on Blindness. Too op to perma blind.

I´d go with a Shield shattering skill, so it becomes a utility skill - no need for another "regular standard attack" as there are other 3 options. Like 75 - 100 chance to break shields with a 4-7 sec cooldwon, maybe?

or, IDEA 2

Add a debuff that makes enemy get more damage (both physical armor and elemental resistances) Idk if there is a "all damage taken" increase stat. This + cursed daggers could be great for a "support build" outlander, more focused on debuffing enemies than on raw DPS.

So the skill itself wouldn´t deal great damage but would be of great utility for a "supporting" or "dirt fighting" build.

so 1 - A shield breaking skill

2 - Damage increase debuff, every kind of dmg.

With 5-15 secs cooldown to keep it situational, not spammable. (Would need to be tested ro balance its cooldown)
REWORKED, WORKING FINE ATM

Thxxxx for reading-

EXTRA EDIT!!!:

Shadowling Ammo:

I saw number of shadowlings has been increased. I like that skill a lot, is fun to spawn those bats. They make good companions and looks cool. I think its weak not because the amount, but because how its damage scales. Their damage depends solely on the player level itself (it seems...) and the Death Pact skill. At higher levels damage is weak anyway.

I´d suggest to link them to FOCUS so its damage can be enhanced by putting stats there.

Why Focus? Well no reason really, could be any other stat.I feel a summoning should depend more on a magic skill than on the character strength or whatever. What i really find importat by linking it to a concrete STAT is that it makes u to think deeper on how you want to build your character. Making decissions makes it more interesting.

PENDING

okay, based on the above feedback i propose:

Swap blade pact and shadow shot position on skill tab. Level requirements also adjusted.

Chaos Burst
Damage debuff added. Each hit from chaos burst increases all damage received by 3%. Lasts 6 seconds and can stack.
I can increases damage from 3 - 5%? if this is to weak and duration from 6 -8 seconds? What do you think seems fair? i will probabaly keep this a "spam" skill for now and see how it works out

Rapid Fire
Attack range increased from 7-12 to to 10-15.
Attacks can now to Proc weapon / gems so you can totally customise your weapon and this skill.

Strafe
Make the DPS/strength changes
I will test making the skill like rapid fire/arc beam but for each second you attack/channel the skill becomes more powerful or attacks even faster.
The tier bonuses will accelerate the strength of the power up/channel

Shadowling Ammo
I will play/test this one aswell and report back!

Great, thxxx!

Im eager to try all new changes!



Im afraid chaos burst woudl become too OP if the extra damage stacks so much.

Also its kidna spammable (on vanilla is like standard attack, u can shoot it continuously)

The idea i suggest is not to make Chaos Burst a "viable standard attack" (it would render obsolete other standard attacks, also there is nopoint on having few different standard attacks, as you can´t use them al at once, one main attack is enough) I mean

If u have a "regular attack A" and a regular attack "B" u will attack with A or B, no point on investing in both. If chaos burst becomes just a regular attacks wich increases damage each time it hits, would be useless to use any other attack (like glaive, rapid fire, or shadow shot)

Instead, for encouraging the player to use a wide selection of skills, I would sugges it just to be a debuff you use eventually, ALONG with your standard attacks or nukes.

My proposal (just scrap, no hard numbers really)

-2 versions, NOT STACKABLE and STACKABLE DMG DEBUFF.

NOT STACKABLE

TIER 0 (lvl 1 to 4)

Cooldown: -If debuff is not stackable, cooldown is irrelevant. It can be just attack speed. (spam skill)

DAMAGE 20% Weapon DPS +1% per level (from 40% base and 2% per level, that is, half)

- As its new purpose is not to be a damage dealing attack but more of a curse (debuff)

DEBUFF: Extra damage from all sources +5%, NOT STACKABLE. Duration 10 seconds.

TIER 1 (lvl 5-9)

Missile Speed increase 30% (from 50%, vanilla bonus)

DEBUFF: Extra damage from all sources +10%, Duration 15 seconds.

TIER 2 (lvl 10-14)

REMOVE ability to poison target . Let the poison ability to Cursed Daggers, so you can combo Cursed Dagers + this for double debuff, less damage from enemy and more damage to enemy)

DEBUFF: Extra damage from all sources +15%, duration 20 seconds, NOT STACKABLE

Missile Speed increase 60% (Slighty higher than vanilla Tier 1 bonus, 50%)

TIER 3 (lvl 15)

- By this time DMG would be 20 + 14 = 34% weapon DPS.

+2 Aditiona missile per burst (vanilla bonus, keep it, be able to hit more enemies or deal a bit more damage when hit seems just ok)

DEBUFF: Extra damage from all sources + 20%, duration 25 seconds. NOT STACKABLE.



STACK VERSION -- EDIT: NOT RECOMMENDED*******:

************After thinking about it: If it were stackable, then it SHOULD be used as main standard attack, as it would recquire continuos fire, render useless any other main attack skill (glavie, rapid, shadow) - So i sugges the NOT STACKABLE version, as it lets the player to use Chaos as debuff AND any other skill as main attack. Stackable version would FORCE the player to use it as his/her only and main standard attack******************************

Cooldown: - Attack speed

DAMAGE 30% Weapon DPS +1% per level (from 40% base and 2% per level)

- As its new purpose is not to be a damage dealing attack but more of a curse (debuff)

DEBUFF: Extra damage from all sources +1%, STACKABLE. Duration 5 seconds.

TIER 1 (lvl 5-9)

Missile Speed increase 30% (from 50%, vanilla bonus)

DEBUFF: Extra damage from all sources +1%, Duration 10 seconds.

TIER 2 (lvl 10-14)

REMOVE ability to poison target . Let the poison ability to Cursed Daggers, so you can combo Cursed Dagers + this for double debuff, less damage from enemy and more damage to enemy)

DEBUFF: Extra damage from all sources +2%, duration 10 seconds,
(Same duration but damage increase debuff grows faster, at double speed than previous tier)

Missile Speed increase 60% (Slighty higher than vanilla Tier 1 bonus, 50%)

TIER 3 (lvl 15)

- By this time DMG would be 30 + 14 = 44% weapon DPS.

+2 Aditiona missile per burst (vanilla bonus)

DEBUFF: Extra damage from all sources + 2%, duration 15 seconds.

-At first i thought "+3% damage 10 seconds" but that would mean +30% of all incoming damage, wich is A LOT of damage. Even more if playing multiplayer (+1 third of all incoming damage of any player!!) .
It would make the skill a "MUST", and im reluctant to make a skill "so good it is a must have". +2% 15 seconds is potentially +30% too, but i find harder to keep focused 15 seconds on a enemy without interruption to take full bonus. Also damge would be slighty increased cz the +2 aditiona missiles so... i guess it makes it a attractive skill without feeling it is a "must have"


REWORKED, WORKING FINE ATM

okay, updates are in - enjoy :)

the only thing i have not changed is Shadowling Ammo but i will start testing that soon.

Feedback more than welcome!

Moar suggestions after testing! :D



CHAOS BURST suggestions:

- increase cooldown to 7 seconds. 1 second window to keep perma-debuff on enemy (as it lasts 8 seconds)

NEW!!!: Increase damage Debuff to 30% (to compensate it won´t stack, o may stack just for a second if perfect timing)

-Reduce the number of proyectiles, to 3-5 (adding +2 or so at each tier).

It seems to easy, even cheesy, hit eveyrhing on the screen in front of u by a single blast. A little aiming woudln´t do any harm. Still make them widespread
-so you can choose of using it at close range and make sure a single target take it all or shoot it from far to a group for multiple target hits

Aesthetics: could it be possible change the projectile COLOUR? it somehows looks so similar to cursed dagger. Not important but if possible would be nice. Maybe to red or dark blue. Whatever makes it more different from cursed dagger, wich are "poison green"


CURSED DAGGERS

Double its poison damage BUT ALSO double the time it takes to deal it. So real DPS is the same, but it just makes more damage over a extended period of time. So it becomes much more viable as DoT skill.


STRAFE:

Set damage to "weapon DPS as elemental" So its a viable high-end skill for both STR or FOC builds- whatever element seems fit.

I would suggest to AVOID POISON damage for Strafe, here the reasoning:

Strafe synergies with Master of Elements:

MoE increases all elemental damage, but increases poison double. There is already few skills with poison damage, and the other "high end" attack, Venemous Hail, does poison. So Master of Elements seems like a no-brainer (or even a must) for any poison / venemous hail build.

Taking that into consideration:

1-Strafe already does more damage than Venemous hail at cost of less mobility and recquiring better character placement. It does not need to get full advantage of the poison bonus to still outdamage venemous hail used on the right situation.

2- By setting its damage to whatever other element, its now up to player choice if investing on Master of Elements (as it still icnreases any other elemental damage, thing that many ppl seems to forget!!) - or not. And build diversity and encouraging wise decission making makes the game more interesting.

-I really like how that skill feels. Aesthetically i think it looks too similar to rapid fire. Maybe changing projectile colour or something would help to make it look more unique. Still thats not a really relevant issue.

Question: Is it able to proc? - I´d suggest make it UNABLE to proc, if it could steal MP as to sustain itself it would be definitely OP. I guess rapid fire would be a good alternative to use procs (recover MP/HP and be a "useful support attack") while Strafe would be just a nuke wich burns MP to deal insane damage.


POISON BURST:

A passive not very used cz not really that useful, so:

Change damage to:

72% Weapon Damage at lvl 1 (actually 50%)
+2 Per level
Maxed, 100% (actually 92%s)

And chance to:

43% level 1 (actually 12%)
+ 2 per level
Maxed, 70% (actually 68%)

While not making it op (when maxed is just slighty better than original) it makes it more viable to use from earlier in game.

POWER SHOT:

-NEEDS REWORK-


Already talked about that, but just typing it to have a concrete idea and not forget:

Rework it into a fire and forget projectile with chases enemies and damages con contact, similar to Blazing Pilars. Damage FULLY ELEMENTAL - So it becomes mainly a FOC build skill (seems like FOCUS based builds needs some love)

Maybe i should suggest Lightning, thinking of it as a energy beam? or fire?

Theres a scrap for it: (Damage number is a placeholder, recquires testing)

Releases a "slow" energy sphere wich chases enemies and cause damage on contact:

-Damage done once per second- Movement speed slighty higher than a regular moving mob.

Tier 0 (lvl 0-4)

Cooldown: 25 seconds (always, no change between levels)

Mana Cost: 50

1 Hit per second
100 Lightning (or fire) DMG
Duration 16 seconds
Speed "70% standard mob speed" (need testing to set a proper value)

Each level it gets:

Mana cost +5

+10 Lightning (or fire) DMG
+1 second duration


Tier 1 (lvl 5)

Increases speed +15% ( 85% regular mob speed)
Has a 4 % chance of causing elemental effect on hit (shock if lightning, burning if fire)

Tier 2 (lvl 10)

Increases speed + 30% (so it gets 100% regular mob speed)
8% chance of elemental effect on hit (shock / burning)

Releases 5 bolts shocks when expires on a radius of 5 metters
10 elemental damage with 10% chance of elemental effect

Tier 3 (lvl 15)

By the time it should have:

240 elemental damage
30 seconds duration

Increases speed + 50% (so it gets 120% regular mob speed)
12% chance of elemental effect on hit (shock / burning)

Explodes when expires causing 100 elemental damage
-also releases 5 shocks bolts causing 20 elemental damage with a 10% chance of elemental effect NEEDS TO BE FULLY REWORKED, DISCARDED SUGGESTION STRIKED ABOVE.


EXTRA:
Set all glaive related skill to pure elemental damage - NOT based on weapon DPS, so glaive becomes FOC related. Also thinking on a rework so every kind of glaive skill becomes useful on a concrente scenario

Note: Important to take consideration Master of Elements into account.
Each level there means +4% Poison damage, +2% other elements.
At tier 15 mean +60% Poison, +30% others.


-Glaive throw already based on poison. Keep as it is, its bounce is good enough. Its already
one of the best vanilla skills. Other skills are enhanced just to match this, so just keep it..

-Glaive Sweep: Set its damage to fire, with values double than Glaive throw. More damage
at the extent of range. Even with master of elements maxed, damage ratio would be 160
Throw vs 230 Sweep.

-Sandstorm: it deals physical damage wich already increases with focus as it is physical
from skill, and not dependent on weapon. Need some upgrade to become more useful. It
can offer a skill wich is based on focus but doesn´t relies on elemental damage boosts,
(and doesn´t need Master of Elements as it doesn´t benefits from it) Its damage is slighty
higher that Glaive Throw, but projectiles move kinda slow. It has a interesting thing, at tier
5 it releases assassin flies on kill. they move randomly and deal some damage,but live so
short.

Suggestions:

- Increase its damage a 25% of what its now. And leave it as it is.
-If possible, make the flies be homing to enemie instead of random movement, or
Increase their life span.

-Shattering Glaive: Its perfect as it is. Really. Only thing its not more used its cz for the time
u get it, u already may have a ton of points on any other "regular attack" skill. It already
does a paired damage with glaive throw and its secondary effects make it useful on
different situations, still not worh enough to get this if already have other basic attacks
skill.

-FLAMING GLAIVE: should be a hig-end skill. Its really nice but pretty situational. As there
are already many "attack" skills i realized it could be more useful as a "passive support".
Flaming glaves circle the player for a while, then "go away".

Perfect thing would be, keep it circling the player dealing damage to anything that comes
close to him

Cooldown - 5 seconds (not really relevant)

Cost: Toggle skill: 1 MP/sec PER LEVEL
(would need testing)


NEW:

Tangling Shoot: it can perma-paralize enemies. Thats also too OP, u can just paralize and kill them without effort / risk.

My suggestion:

Chance to paralize primary target 40% (from 100)
Chance to aparalize secondary target 20% (from 65) Radius 4
Paralize duration 1 second.
(still allows for perma paralize if fast enought attack speed and luck)

Deals XX poison damage over 3 seconds, CAN STACK

Each level, poison damage get increased, NOTHING MORE.
*Idk how the damage progress per level, cannot elaborate over it.

Tier 1 Chance of paralize:
Primary target 50%
Secondary 30% Radius extend to 5


Tier 2
Primary target 60%
Secondary 40% Radius extend 6

Reduce primary target movement speed 15% for 2 seconds. 100% proc.

Tier 3
Primary target 70%
Secondary 50% Radius extend 7

Reduce primary target speed 30% for 2 seconds. 100% proc.

ok i have a few suggestions for review based on your feedback:

Chaos shot
Increased cool down to 5 seconds
Reduced arc and projectiles fired at lower levels to 5/7/9
Changed colour of projectiles to differentiate skill from cursed daggers

CURSED DAGGERS
Doubled its poison damage BUT ALSO double the time it takes to deal it. So real DPS is the same, but it just makes more damage over a extended period of time. So it becomes much more viable as DoT skill.

Strafe
Make Fire damage

POISON BURST:
i don't play outlander enough to comment but I would keep the chance the same - EG not make this a 1 point wonder but I can increase the DPS it does?

Power SHot
Reading this again, I am worried it will be a clone of sand storm - do we have any other ideas for this skill

Sand Storm - have you tried the new version its very powerful in this mod?
Doubled duration of tier 1 bonus plague flies
Reduced Tier 2 range bonus from 40 down to 30
Reduced Tier 3 range bonus from 50 down to 40

Glaive Swipe
Changed damage type to Fire

Flaming Glaive - i really want to do something with this skill - maybe make it pair/synergise with glavie sweep to enhance a melee style build - I will see if I can get it be a toggle on/off or keep the blades around the player

Tangle shot
I don't know if many people take this skill or not - how about a half way compromise - I reduce secondary target chance - and we further review?

Nice! im totally agree with points above.

Would think something else for Power Shot

Point on Tangle shot is that it totally renderes the enemy defenceless, you can just perma paralize it and kill it without risk, allowing u to kill booses and champions without risk. Even if secondary chance is lower, if primary is kept 100% it swill will allow for super-easy kills.

I think not many ppl take it, but just cz they are not aware of the perma-para on enemies.

If keeping a chanc eof 100%, i´d then make sure cooldown is higher to paralize duration, just to not be able to perma-para the mob.

Will Edit after some testinf :D

NEW:
Actually tring a melee build. Ofc outlander may remain squishy, as its mainly a DPS, but thx to high mobility it seems quite viable. I think im up to some tweaks

GLAIVE SWEEP:
The knockback is more aproblem than a advantage, is hard to stay in melee combat pushing the enemies back. I guess its cz the skill was intended to push enemies back and stay at ranged combat. I´d completely remove the knocback, or at least make it minimal (like 5, from 40)

Increase Charge generation, at least to double. So player can get faster attack speed and crit on melee.

RAPID FIRE:
IS near perfect now, i´d just suggest to reduce its knocback to half (at least), it usually pushes the enemies our of range witht he first shoots, somehow annoying.

RUNE VAULT: This one is what lets u go melee and be able to survive. Once hp goes low you can just use this to go away, AND get HP / MP regen (after tier 1, at lvl 5). So Rune Vault is perfect combo skill to be able to stay engaged. Is nice it hits all enemies in area, but sill im worried the HP steal u get from gear might be not enough.

I´d consider adding it also a small HP steal per hit, wich would sum to any steal from gear / gems. Like 100 HP per level or so, maybe. (would recquire further testing to tweak the amount of healing)

SHADOWMANTLE: Make it a toggle skill wich burns mana (I suggest that for any long-lasting buff, except for those ones wich excludes other skills of beign used, wich is not the case of Shadowmantle)

Extra: Chaos Burst - Would ite be possible for the enemies to show an aura or icon above them to point they are debuffed? Maybe like cursed daggers icon but with another colour.

Originally posted by AKA >9K:

Would think something else for Power Shot

Point on Tangle shot is that it totally renderes the enemy defenseless...

Just make Power Shot as it's name sounds: a gigantic Knockback explosion that Blinds all foes in the area for 2 seconds while increasing their physical damage taken by 6-20% for 7 seconds with a big cooldown.

Very much like a real life (yet giant) flashbang grenade launcher.

Think of it as an occasional Spike in Crowd Control.

= = =

Tangle Shot can Lock a foe unfairly in it's current state so simply turn it into a ranged version of the Berserker's Chain Snare Skill so foes are still dangerous yet restricted to a smaller area without the immobile lock.

Give it a long cool down for balance.

Change the Vortex Hex Skill into a Melee only skill with Melee Damage Boosts to balance this out.

Originally posted by AKA >9K:

Actually trying a melee build for Outlander.

GLAIVE SWEEP:
The knockback is more aproblem than a advantage, is hard to stay in melee combat pushing the enemies back. I guess its cz the skill was intended to push enemies back and stay at ranged combat. I´d completely remove the knocback, or at least make it minimal (like 5, from 40)

Increase Charge generation, at least to double. So player can get faster attack speed and crit on melee.

RUNE VAULT: This one is what lets u go melee and be able to survive. Once hp goes low you can just use this to go away, AND get HP / MP regen (after tier 1, at lvl 5). So Rune Vault is perfect combo skill to be able to stay engaged. Is nice it hits all enemies in area, but sill im worried the HP steal u get from gear might be not enough.

I´d consider adding it also a small HP steal per hit, wich would sum to any steal from gear / gems. Like 100 HP per level or so, maybe. (would recquire further testing to tweak the amount of healing)

Agreed as these two Skills need to be made viable for the much desired Melee Outlander style.

I also have a new proposition for an Outlander Melee Skill Tree.

Simply move skills around so that only 2 Trees start and favor Ranged Builds and Skills while this Melee Tree contains only Skills that mostly favor Melee or are locked without a Melee Weapon.

Here's a list of Skills that are useful for Melee:

Glaive Sweep
Rune Vault
Vortex Hex
Flaming Glaives (rework this so it stays close for a longer time).

There might also be those Blade or Stone Pacts and Repulsion Hex although I forgot if they were removed however we could easily find 3 other Skills for this Melee Tree I'm sure.

Might be able to rework Brambles to be circular rather than a straight wall similar to Embermage's Ice Prison and deal an area of Poison Damage to favor enclosing foes for Melee users.

Im mostly agre with what pointed about, still oncerned about Powe rShot

Originally posted by steffire3:

Just make Power Shot as it's name sounds: a gigantic Knockback explosion that Blinds all foes in the area for 2 seconds while increasing their physical damage taken by 6-20% for 7 seconds with a big cooldown.

Very much like a real life (yet giant) flashbang grenade launcher.

Think of it as an occasional Spike in Crowd Control.

I think there is already enough attack / crowd control over the table (Tangling shoot, even if it need s reowrk, vortex hex, incoming / outcoming damage debuff from poison daggers and chaos burst...

Try to think something new about it i came to that: a skill of multiple use depending on the weapon you´re carrying.

MP COST: toggle, 2 per second (may recquire furhter testing till find a ok amount, it should be enough as to slowly burn your mana if not geared, but to be able ro recover it very slowly or at least stay at 0 if geared on MP regen, it would just need some testing to adjust the cost:)

Bonus per level

Pistols: +1% attack speed, +1 chance to execute (if dual wield)

Bow: +0.5 Distance, +2% Crit Chance

Xbow: +2% DMG

Shotgone: +23 Crit DMG

Any melee weapon: +3% All armor increase.

And tier bonus, wich may apply to any weapon

TIER 1: +10% Crit Chance

TIER 2: +15% CRIT DMG

TIER 3: + 15% Attack and Cast Speed.