Torchlight II

Torchlight II

TL2-ACE
Seinekar 18 Mar, 2018 @ 4:49am
Embermage Rebalance
And here we go!

Now Outlander is closely done time to start with next: Embermage!

IMPORTANT NOTE:

Again im strugglign with Weapon DPS / Flat DMG skills. Flat damage seems SO MUCH MORE powerful than Weap DPS, but maybe its cz my testign character is undergeared. Im getting huge damage difference, whereas weap DPS skills are so weak and Flat DMG are totally OP.

I will try with better gear but still seems hard a weapon can have a DPS wich can rival with Flat DMG from skills.

So this is kinda of opening post wich may be updated and probably will get as long and deep as Outlander (lets hope not! lol)

First insights:

Prismatic Bolts has been changed to Lightning blast. It still feels so... well, not good. Kidna rigid, slow cast, slow hit, pretty generic. Still each Mage brand is related to one element (fire, ice, lightning) - There is a fire basic attack, and ice basic attack... so well it makes sense to have a lightning basic attack

Also Fire basic is like a machien gun, it shoots fast bolts on straight line. Ice basic is more liek a shotgun, multiple projectile son arc, wich ricochets. Lightning may need sth.

Prismatic bolts was just OP cz it was multi elemental, high damage, few bolts and homing. But Lightning Blast still feels weird. So:

As each element has a different attck patern i suggestto get back Prismatic Bolts but let them be just Lightning Bolts (or Blast, why not) and let it fire pattern be just like prismatic bolts. Exactly the same appearance and animation, BUT:

LIGHTNING BOLTS "2"

-Vanilla prismatic bolt appearance and behaviour.

-ONLY lightning damage.

-Damage 15% weapon DPS (Fire and Ice are 30% and 33%) As Ligthning Blast "2" may have homing capabilities and multiple projectiles, halving its dmg seems jsut fair. Yeah, ice blast also has multiple projectiles, but they do not home and WONT EVERY SHOT HIT THE SAME TARGET for high damage on single enemy. While Lightning Bolt "2" may be able to do so.

-Keep the added effectos of Lightning Blast "1" (extra flat electrif damage, chance to stun)


FROST PHASE:

This wich any ranged attackc ombo make smage almost unkillable, as you can spam teleport around all map. More if shooting homies like Lightning Bolt 2 or Blazing pillars, or whatever.

Also it has a "offensive" use wich is atm useless (small ice AoE on telepor)

Suggestion:

Cooldown of 12 seconds at lvl 1 -1 per level, so 5 seconds cooldown when maxed.
AoE Area doubled (maybe tripled) - recquires testing
AoE Damage Doubled (maybe tripled) - recquires testing
HP steal? (extra incentive) 3% Player HP per enemy hit.
Generates a "normal" amount of charge.

Per Level:
-1 sec cooldown (5 secs cooldown at max level)
Dmg increase.

Tiers 1,2,3.
Keep the Radious increase (doubled*)
add 1% HP stolen per enemy hit (max 6% per enemy hit)

And test out.

SET TO TOGGLE:
(this would work for every class, and i´d say may be a core and trademark of TL2-E rework)
Long buff skills - set to toggle (mana burnign per second)

IMMOLATION AURA

ASTRAL ALLY

ELEMENTAL BOON


Now more on... Lightning Brand:

SHOCKING BURST:

Another main attack, but short range. Its useless compared to Lightning Blast "2" so:

-Make it also able to build charge (actually disabled)
-Increase slighty range (like +50%?)
- Increase stun prob, being it its more straight advantage (i´d say +25% at al levels)

Tiers: keep as it is (with the extra increase of range too)

THUNDER LOCUS

Actually not so useful as... enemy moves. And it does not. Also you cnan oly have 1 on field, if u summon a new one, it deletes the first. 2 suggestions here:

1 "Easy" - make it enable to slowly chase targets. So it becomes somehow a lightnign version of blazing pillars, but concentrated on a single orb.

2 "Cool" Reduce cooldown to around 5 seconds and be able to summon few at same time I´d say 1, +1 per tier (5 at max level) so you can fill most of the map withit. Spread them for field control of many small mobs or overlap them on a short range for concentrated dmg.
May recquire testing about how "op" could be to stack them....

ARC BEAM:

Make sure its dmg is around 1.5 or 2 higher than "Lightning Blast 2" so its basically becomes a single-line, piercing Mana expensive attack, with around double MP than "LB2". So a "concentrated damage alternative attack" at cost of fast mana burning.

SHOCKBOLTS:

I think this looks great and so. I´d decrease its mana cost /4 (25% of current MP cost) So it can be used as a low dmg spamable AoE. Dmg could be tweaked cz maybe it woudl be so low, but thats sth still to be tested.

SHOCKING ORB:

Damage based on Weapon DPS. Might be so weak compared to flat dmg skills, so probably add Lightning flat damage. Still recquires testing.

PRIMATIC RIFT (passive) - Do we really want enemies teleported when hit? that seems more an annoyance than an advantage. Maybe remove teleport effect and just keep the chance of causing elemental effects... when ENEMY IS HIT (not player). Im not so sure about this one, is just the vanilla design seems so weird.

WAND CHAOS: Remove the "recquires a wand" recquirement. For teh Lulz. (Making it more viable and versatile)

LIGHTNING BRAND: Keep as it is : D - testing?


FIRE BRAND

MAGMA SPEAR: keep as it is, used as reference standard attack (fire)

MAGMA MACE: I think Mage should need a HIGH incentive as to going melee. I´d consider to double its dmg bot weap DPS and Flat, so ppl may even consider to go melee with this. (Testing and tweaks for a balanced amount of dmg recquired)

FIREBOMBS: Seems fair enough. Testing recquired

BLAZING PILLARS: Cool skill, is fine still im struggling to see what makes the pillars to fade, as they do at different rates. It seems they start to fade after ricocheting with an obstacle. I´d fix their lifespan to a fixed amount of time. 10 second would be fair enough (at max level cooldon is 5.5 so you would be able to have double amount of pillars at once, no more)

INFERNAL COLLAPSE: Somehwo a Nuke wich can be launch anywhere and with AoE. Atm just keep as it is, furhter testing recquired.

IMMOLATION AURA: Make it a toggle wich burns MP. Aside of that, just keep as it is. Flat damage reduction. Nothing more to say.

FIRESTORM: Decent ultimate. While dmg may seem ow in numbers, its quite spammable. Atm i´d just keep its until further testing and comparisons with other skills.

PASSIVES: All seems fair. Would not touch.

ICE BRAND

ICY BLAST: keep s it is for now until further testing. Reference skill of the brand.
It feels so weak based on Weap DPS. Still recquires testing (see "IMPORTANT NOTE" at beggining of the post)

HAILSTORM: seems so good compare dto Icy Brand cz of Flat Damage. Maybe should use a NERF. Still must recquire testing. (Is like a cheaper, lowpowered version of Firestorm)
Problem also is, There is another skill (FROST WAVE) wich is also a powerful AoE. Both skills are somehow redundant to each other. So maybe one of 2 could be reworked to be an Area DEBUFF instead a DMG dealer. (see later on post)

FROST PHASE: [Repeat from above]

This wich any ranged attackc ombo make smage almost unkillable, as you can spam teleport around all map. More if shooting homies like Lightning Bolt 2 or Blazing pillars, or whatever.

Also it has a "offensive" use wich is atm useless (small ice AoE on telepor)

Suggestion:

Cooldown of 12 seconds at lvl 1 -1 per level, so 5 seconds cooldown when maxed.
AoE Area doubled (maybe tripled) - recquires testing
AoE Damage Doubled (maybe tripled) - recquires testing
HP steal? (extra incentive) 3% Player HP per enemy hit.
Generates a "normal" amount of charge.

Per Level:
-1 sec cooldown (5 secs cooldown at max level)
Dmg increase.

Tiers 1,2,3.
Keep the Radious increase (doubled*)
add 1% HP stolen per enemy hit (max 6% per enemy hit)

And test out.


ELEMENTAL BOOM: Make it toggle. Keep as it is aside of that

FROST WAVE: Its cool looking skill, but its another AoE not too different in game terms to Hailstorm, so my suggestion: Rework one of the 2 skills to be a debuff more than a damage dealing skill.

---HAILSTORM has a banilla DEBUFF wicn increase 60% ice damage taken. What about nerfing Hailstorm damage to something "minimal" but increase this debuff duration to 20 seconds (instead of jsut 6) and increase its debuff to around 150% or even 200%. Or make it stackable (60% up to 3-4 stacks, for 180-240%)

ICE PRISON: Mostly a utility skill. I say keep as it is until further testing.

ASTRAL ALLY: Switch it to toggle skill. Recquires further testing to tweak damage and such.

PASSIVES:

STAFF MASTERY: Remove the "Staff recquired" recquirement. For teh Lulz. (Making it more viable and versatile)

FROZEN FATE: Idk about this one. Do you think its really that useful? (when killing a enemy, there is a chance up to nearby enemies getting frozen)

ICE BRAND: keep as it is.


Welp thats all for now lol.

"Mage wont be as much work as Outlander" -Corley


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Showing 1-6 of 6 comments
Corley  [developer] 20 Mar, 2018 @ 10:27am 
Just read it all and thanks for taking your time and energy for the write up

I am mainly at this stage acknowledging your post but will move onto this once outlander rebalance is finished in the coming weeks
steffire3  [developer] 21 Mar, 2018 @ 12:45pm 
Originally posted by (AKA) >9K:
SHOCKING ORB:

Damage based on Weapon DPS. Might be so weak compared to flat dmg skills, so probably add Lightning flat damage. Still recquires testing.

I recommend reading Gakm7's Guide and it's comments on vanilla Dps Shocking Orb Embermage (and associated Skills) which may help to balance this class:

https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=924384705&searchtext=gakm7

Strength, Focus and Dexterity used together on one Skill can lead to an incredible amount of damage unless we lower high numbers on certain spammable Skills or give reasonable cool downs.
Last edited by steffire3; 21 Mar, 2018 @ 12:54pm
steffire3  [developer] 21 Mar, 2018 @ 4:08pm 
Originally posted by (AKA) >9K:
So this is kinda of opening post which may be updated and probably will get as long and deep as Outlander (lets hope not! lol)

First insights:

I'm glad the Outlander got transformed into a wonderful class!

I hope the same happens here.

I like the ideas posted above.

So I'm going to focus on Skills that require more consideration:

= = = = = = =
  • Embermage Charge Bar

    = = =

    Instead of 100% Less Mana Cost, let this only be 50% Less Mana Cost.

    Allow the Skill "Prismatic Rift" to give 17-45% Less Mana Cost giving Players the option to "complete" this boost.

    = = =

  • General Changes

    = = =

    Lightning, Fire, and Ice Brands:

    I'm thinking of making this even more visually fun by adding 2-30% Chances to Lightning, Meteor and Glacial on Strike with each effect restricted to their element.

    Reduce damage if needed.

    = = =

  • Storm Skills

    = = =

    Thunder Locus

    Allow it to follow foes? What if it follows foes to the edge of the screen? (it can already "see" and kill foes before they even appear) It might be better to let it follow the Player defensively to give the foes a chance to spawn and the game does consider it to be a Summon.

    If we allow multiple clones of this on the field then there's no reason to have Shocking Orb as a Skill.

    Thunder Locus can be very powerful if empowered by high Focus as a Flat Damage Skill.

    The vanilla Tier 3 enables it to release 4 bolts at once... this thing is already strong with just 1 bolt.

    = = =

    Prismatic Rift

    Maybe we should let this do just the opposite of what vanilla does.

    Instead of moving foes and dealing damage (My sad Melee face > --_-) let's change it to a 6-20% Chance to activate: Heal 17-45% Health over 4 seconds, Reduce Mana Cost by 17-45% for 4 seconds and up Cast Speed by 1-15% for 4 seconds if Player is hit by foe?

    = = =

  • Inferno Skills

    = = =

    Magma Mace

    Increase it's Cast Speed and allow it to be the Embermage's Melee Spam Skill of choice.

    Don't worry about it's power since it's no where near the power or reach or area of the Engineer's Flame Hammer or the crazy % heals of the Berserker Skills.

    = = =

    Fire Bombs (Scorched Mind?)

    Make this one bomb with one pool of fire that damages foes and empowers the Embermage (maybe add % Fire Damage) while standing in it.

    Let Fire Bomb be the atomic cool down big damage nuke "if" foes stand in it yet make it a small area and make it a choice: Does the Player stand in it to increase their Fire Damage or throw it into a group of foes to nuke them? There's the other option of using Magma Mace and luring foes into Melee Range to get both benefits. Players will crave this as a flexible Strategic Skill.

    If this happens then switch this Skill's place and Unlock Level higher up the Inferno Tree.

    = = =

    Infernal Collapse

    Let this be a thrown grenade that quickly explodes (vanilla is annoyingly slow to burst).

    I actually like the idea of this being a spammable all around Knockback Damage option against the linear Damage and Knockback of Magma Spear. (consider the competing options in the Storm Tree).

    That way it benefits Melee builds who need the all around Knockback to escape yet also have the sniper of Magma Spear to soften a line of foes before entering Melee combat.

    = = =

    Immolation Aura

    Make it bigger, make it Damaging, make it worthy of a Melee Mage, make foes pay for daring to attack at close range.

    Make it costly at higher ranks. It teams well with Magma Mace and would be most welcome to a Melee Player.

    = = =

  • Frost Skills

    = = =

    Icy Blast

    It really needs 1 bolt to always fire in a straight line to at least guarantee the foe in front gets hit no matter where the other bolts go.

    = = =

    Staff Mastery (Elemental Decay?)

    Let this only affect "Heavy Weapons" like Cannons, Shotgonnes, Bows, Crossbows, Polearms, Staves and other Great Melee weapons.

    So I'm saying no Shields, Dual Wield or 1 Handers not even Wands.

    In the Skills Expansion mod: Doudley and I allowed this to affect all weapons-

    -the result was that fast one handers like Claws and Pistols stacked this to -200% Elemental Armor for several seconds totally out performing this Skill against slow weapons at which point even Poison Embers were no longer needed.

    = = =

    Frozen Fate

    Just make this "On Strike" instead of "On Kill" and then we can see how powerful it is and make adjustments because locking foes is useful especially for Melee Mages.

    = = =

  • Conclusion

    = = =

    @ Everyone: I hope this helps!

    Change these plans as needed- it's just some ideas I have for the Embermage. ^_^
Last edited by steffire3; 22 Mar, 2018 @ 6:41pm
Xercules 22 Mar, 2018 @ 5:07pm 
Wow, ok you guys did the outlander, could i make a plea? Please? With steff helping reballance, or whatever this is, could you guys do the dark source next? Please?? Then do the rest? Feedback and reballance on an epic summoner already in the game would be great! Please. Plus, i think Corley might be switching to some new content! She was gonna look at steff’s ember emporers! (Hope she dosent burnout!).
Last edited by Xercules; 22 Mar, 2018 @ 5:21pm
steffire3  [developer] 22 Mar, 2018 @ 6:48pm 
Originally posted by Xercules:
Wow, ok you guys did the outlander, could i make a plea? Please? With steff helping reballance, or whatever this is, could you guys do the dark source next? Please?? Then do the rest? Feedback and reballance on an epic summoner already in the game would be great! Please. Plus, i think Corley might be switching to some new content! She was gonna look at steff’s ember emporers! (Hope she dosent burnout!).

Always happy to help where I can!

I'm less familiar with the new classes so I need to see a Discussion where someone writes their Skill Descriptions and their Battle Numbers.

I would have done it except for my limited time... I've been wanting to respond to this Embermage Discussion for several days and finally got a chance to do it.
Last edited by steffire3; 22 Mar, 2018 @ 6:50pm
Xercules 22 Mar, 2018 @ 8:06pm 
And your awesome at it! Just dont know if aka will swap to dark sorrc since hes already started with emobermage. But this class interests me too. I like his idea with the prismatic bolt going lightning only but retaining thr bolt characteristics.

And im back too work for 5 nights so i can just give input as you guys bring it here.
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