You should add some ekdromoi units if they arent already in there. It was accurate historically i think. Theyd make fine light hoplite units.

There are ekdromoi. In fact the light portion of hoplites can be considered ekdromoi. Also Biotia has a new reformed unit of ekdromoi equipped with pikes (they were precurssors of MAcedonian phalanx)

Ah okay. Sweet :)

@ Meek keep an eye here cause a bit later i will post a detail analysis on the skirmishers. Thanks.

ok

THere is a tricky part about skirmishers. Let me explain a bit. We faced a balancing problem at first. You see naval units had 200 men - crew. From them 170 were rowers and 30 give or take were fighters (hoplites or lights) . The problem was that a naval unit also fights in land but with full strength. So we needed a unit that has 30 men on sea and 120 on land which cannot happen.Now imagine a ship with only 30 men on board . One volley of javelins and it would rout..So we thought this solution. We doubled health points for naval units and we gave them a medium number of 60 to 80 men. So this way when in sea they would face other sea - men with equal hit points and numbers and when on land since they had double hit points they would last twice as long . So the 60 men are equally to 120 same as the land javelin men. Also we increased a bit the damage of those javelins in order to simulate their true numbers (200) .So the 2 volleys you received causing 35 deaths equals to a volley of 400 javelins -> equals 1 death for every 10 javelin hits something logical. Also guys dont underestimate javelin men. Think Sfacteria where 500 elite Spartans were defeated and think of Iphicrates were he beated Spartans many times with Psiloi.Almost every time hoplites facing light units that fought "irregular" they lost and that was the reason that later on hoplites became lighter.

My suggestion is to keep javelin men away. A nice plan is to have a unit chasing them a bit to make them retreat while your javelin men or archers hitting them on the back. You can see also this tactics video i had uploaded at some point on youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2Q8KzKdmSI . Check around 3:30 )

but the sea battles of the war were mostly about manouvers right?, not showering decks with javelins. If ther is less troops on board then less chance of being showered. Please tell me there is the backing water technique, also where can i find reference to the boitean pikemen. and hoplites only got done by light troops when surrounded without support, no?

Sea battles back then were not only maneuvering and ramming. Ramming was mainly used at open sea battles (where the nesecary area for maneuver exists) and required experienced crew and captain(kybernetes). (That's why ramming was the favourite Athenian tactic, while the Peloponnesians tried to catch them and storm the decks, till they gain the necesary experience). Phormion naval battles are some good examples for ramming and open sea naval combats. Although in naval battles where there was not enough space for maneuvers, characteristic example the naval battle inside the Megas Limen of Syracuse, boarding and harashment were the main tactics. If you ve read Thoukydides remember that before this battle Nikias load the Athenian triremes with many skirmishers for this exact reason.
To sum it up boarding and harashing remained the main naval tactics. Ramming required experienced crews that's why was performed mostly by Athenians, at least on the first half of the war.
About "pikemen" (they are not ordinary pikes..) you can found references at Peter Connolly's "Greece and Rome at War" and "Histoire_de_l'armee_grecque" of the same author in the section he describes the boiotian shield.

What do you mean by backing water technique? Trireme crew rawing backwards? If yes, unfortunately not..

From M@x presentation on Boiotian "pikemen"

"For many historians the existence of the Boiotian shield during the classical age seems rather doubtful, drawing on the opinion that coins found in Boiotia dating from the classical age who do depict Boiotian shields are merely images projecting the heroic past of Boiotia. Some other writes, however, including Peter Connolly, support the idea that the Boiotians actually used the Boiotian shield during this timeframe. But according to this opinion it was not used in a classical hoplite phalanx due to the different grip and shape of the Boiotian shield, which inevitably left parts of the body unprotected and gaps in the line vulnerable to attack. Peter Connolly and others who follow his thesis suggested that this shield was used in a more open formation along with a longer spear like a pike in order to exploit the moon-cuts of the shield. It is said that Boiotian shield was much lighter and cheaper than the Argive hoplon since it was made from leather and covered in wood. That explains why no shield of this type has ever been found, and also makes the historians believe that poor Boiotian citizens used this shield because of the comparatevily low cost.

Later, during the life of Epameinondas, when democracy had been established and many poorer citizens joined the army, the Boiotian shield became common among their ranks. If we may have an opinion on this, we support the idea that the Boiotian shield existed during the classical era and was more than simply a symbol of the heroic past. It was a shield commonly used by poor Boiotian citizens, who were not able to join the ranks of hoplites. But when democracy was established and many of the poor joined the Theban army in a more professional role, Epameinondas, inspired by the great Athenian general Iphikrates, (Iphicrates created an unit of peltast-hoplites carrying much longer spears and the smaller and lighter pelte shields. Look for the Iphicrateans in the Athenian preview) armed those who carried Boiotian shields with pikes and deployed them in a more open formation than the classical hoplitic phalanx (as Connolly says) in order to fully exploit the elements of the shield and make them robust enough for a fight with heavy hoplites.

Another reason to strongly believe Connolly's theory is the example of Philip II of Makedon. It is commonly known that Philip was strongly inspired to reform the Makedonian army from what he saw in Thebes. But what exactly did he see there in order to create an army full of pikes? That's why we believe that Iphikrates started the development when he created his peltast-hoplite soldiers using all the lessons of the Peloponnesian war, Epameinondas was inspired by him and finally Philip used all the knowledge from his time in Thebes to invent a perfect army full of those soldiers with pikes and pelte shields, the Makedonian phalanx. We do not actually know how the afore mentioned troops were used by the Thebans so we can only speculate that they normally filled the last ranks of the Boiotian phalanxes in order to achieve the huge depths of 25-50 ranks. At least this may have been be their initial role before Epameinondas trained them and exploit all their benefits to make them into a force like the later Makedonian phalanx. Unfortunately its creation had to wait until the rule of Phillip in Makedon because of Epameinondas' early death at the battle of Mantineia."

hi guys great job !!! im trying to make my own mod but in my pack file there isnt local rome 2 but just local it and it is impossible for me at the moment grrr xD will u help ?

i simply want my hoplites look like in arena war the guy with the real corintian helmet and alexander just like there i mean without the clothes under better saying only with the armor can any one of u help me?

For visuals of units M@x1mus is the one responsible. if he does not see your comment here post it in Hellenika part 2 or 3 where he will get a notification and answer back

i can not comment but just wright in the discussion sand me the friend request or juyst add me
i am sure u will help thamks

hey finnished reading manual, it quite amazing....but the 4tpy....with all the new features it seems that even in a 12try it would stop you from steam rolling through. Please Phalangitis your breaking my heart. I totaly read what you said but the 12try allows for proper campains where you must go home for winter. like the navy having no upkeep in port an army garisoned in home territory would be free as they farm, but still on the lists to be called up when needed...only the super rich states could afford prolonged campains or sieges. people should be forced to go home for winter, kind of like the ship mechanics. please please consider.