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Stellaris >  Workshop > CaptainX3's Workshop > ((( NSC3 - Season 1 ))) > Discussions
((( NSC3 - Season 1 )))
Description Discussions7 Comments18614 Change Notes
Xeonzs 29 May, 2024 @ 8:13am
Flagships still spawned en-mass for other empires.
[s]I've pointed this out before when comments were still allowed on the mod page.[/s]

Currently when you make a flagship, it automatically gives every other empire a flagship too, regardless of if they can create it themselves or support it economically.

There's several things wrong here, as some bypasses regular mechanics of the game such as:
Do you have the required resources to build it, are sufficiently technologically advanced to build it and have you invested in the required megastructures in order to build.
That all gets thrown out of the window with that decision, so you get empire who are down to 2 systems and can barely sustain a 10k fleet suddenly get a flagship thrown onto them.

My main gripe with this decision though is that one I've pointed out before:
I often play determined exterminators, fanatical purifiers, xenophobic isolationists or warmongering empires, as such I tend to not be friends with other empires.
You'd think such a powerful ship would be a useful tool, but no, because if I were to build it, I'd have 1 flagship, but I'd now have to face 12-20 flagships.

I therefor again request that this feature be changed , retain the 1 flagship per empire limit, but rework this part of the mod so that it no longer ignores basic mechanics (Such as economy, research and resource investement) for the AI.

As it currently stands, the feature is no fun and best avoided for any warfare-focused empires.

Don't get me wrong, I very much appreciate the overall mod and the work that went into it, but this specific part of the mod is highly flawed, in my humble opinion.
Last edited by Xeonzs; 29 May, 2024 @ 2:27pm
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Showing 1-10 of 10 comments
CaptainX3  [developer] 29 May, 2024 @ 10:51am 
The main reason this feature was implemented is because we did extensive testing and found that the AI will NEVER build a Flagship. No matter what. No matter how many resources they have, how powerful they are, or anything - they will never, ever build one. We're not sure why. We even gave the AI modifiers to bring the build cost of it down to nearly zero. They wouldn't build it then either.

The feature does not give them to ALL empires, it's randomized, although it is possible for all empires to get one if the RNG selects all of them.

Without this feature, the player will be the only empire with a Flagship, and you will be able to steamroll almost all empires with only the Flagship and nothing else, which makes it a massive cheat. We got a ton of complaints about the game being too easy after building a Flagship, which is why this feature was created in the first place.

We won't be removing the feature completely because the Flagship is a cheat without something to balance it, but I I will look into seeing if we can adjust the feature to only give Flagships to larger, more stable empires, if that's possible in the coding.

The way in which the player obtains a Flagship will change in NSC Season 2, which is currently being worked on, so I will look and see if there's a way to balance it a bit better.

(And comments are still allowed on the mod page, they're not turned off...)
Last edited by CaptainX3; 29 May, 2024 @ 11:10am
#1
Xeonzs 29 May, 2024 @ 1:00pm 
I see, in that case it somewhat makes sense to give the AI the ship if they refuse to build it.
I was under the assumption all empires got it, I did small test yesterday and indeed most of them had one, but the few that didn't I had assumed I just couldn't find it among all their fleets or it was in one of their unexplored systems.

If the player is the only one getting one I completely understand it would feel like a cheat and too easy for player's who've built one so in that sense I again understand the reasoning behind the choice.

In that case I look forward to the changes in season 2 and thank you for taking the time to explain the reasoning and AI behaviour.

Indeed comments are possible, not sure why I wasn't able to place comments earlier. (last I checked was a couple of days ago)
#2
CaptainX3  [developer] 29 May, 2024 @ 1:44pm 
I really don't want EVERY empire to get one because you'd definitely get your butt handed to you LOL. I'm open for ideas on how to balance the Flagship mechanics.

You're very welcome to join the NSC Discord and talk with the community, and that's also where new ideas for the mod are posted and voted on by everyone. The community there gets sneak previews, direct chats with the NSC dev team, etc. And probably 85% of new content in the mod is directly suggested by the community and does not come from us devs!
#3
Mountain Dew Code Red 30 Aug, 2024 @ 3:31am 
I did encounter that ALL empires still get a Flagship aside from Fallen Empires, unless they were newly formed after the force spawn.
#4
Xeonzs 30 Aug, 2024 @ 4:23am 
Originally posted by Windows 7 User:
I did encounter that ALL empires still get a Flagship aside from Fallen Empires, unless they were newly formed after the force spawn.
X3 did specify Season 2, so I guess we'll still have to wait for that :)
#5
CaptainX3  [developer] 30 Aug, 2024 @ 3:09pm 
Originally posted by Windows 7 User:
I did encounter that ALL empires still get a Flagship aside from Fallen Empires, unless they were newly formed after the force spawn.

We have that code set to choose random empires of a certain size. If all empires were fairly advanced, it is possible that every one could get a Flagship if the RNG chooses all of them.

Eventually I’ll take another look at this and see how to balance it, but it’s not currently a priority. Season 2 is on indefinite hold right now due to most of the dev team dealing with real life stuff.
#6
Xeonzs 30 Aug, 2024 @ 8:09pm 
Originally posted by CaptainX3:
Originally posted by Windows 7 User:
I did encounter that ALL empires still get a Flagship aside from Fallen Empires, unless they were newly formed after the force spawn.

We have that code set to choose random empires of a certain size. If all empires were fairly advanced, it is possible that every one could get a Flagship if the RNG chooses all of them.

Eventually I’ll take another look at this and see how to balance it, but it’s not currently a priority. Season 2 is on indefinite hold right now due to most of the dev team dealing with real life stuff.
Shame to hear about the hold, sadly such is life.
#7
That Cute Dragon 26 Dec, 2024 @ 11:58am 
Would it be possible to determine AI Flagship spawns based on their ranking? So say the game chooses the top x amount of empires capable of spawning one and then starts a randomized countdown to each spawn so that it feels organic?
#8
CaptainX3  [developer] 26 Dec, 2024 @ 10:10pm 
Originally posted by That Cute Dragon:
Would it be possible to determine AI Flagship spawns based on their ranking? So say the game chooses the top x amount of empires capable of spawning one and then starts a randomized countdown to each spawn so that it feels organic?

Yes, this is pretty close to what we're planning to do for Season 2, especially since we are going to change how the player obtains the Flagship (It will be through dig sites & events rather than pure research).
#9
Xeonzs 26 Dec, 2024 @ 10:14pm 
Originally posted by CaptainX3:
Originally posted by That Cute Dragon:
Would it be possible to determine AI Flagship spawns based on their ranking? So say the game chooses the top x amount of empires capable of spawning one and then starts a randomized countdown to each spawn so that it feels organic?

Yes, this is pretty close to what we're planning to do for Season 2, especially since we are going to change how the player obtains the Flagship (It will be through dig sites & events rather than pure research).
Happy to know you guys haven't forgotten about this!
#10
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