Hi and thx for this mod !

i did some testing in multiplayer battle with a friend, here are the results :

---lore of death (Azhag and Mannfred)
Bijuma's laugh is a little too strong.
Kills about 80/90% of a weak unit (like goblin spearmen or skeletons), and about 60%/70% of an elite unit (black orcs)
The problem here is that units can't even escape this spell, so I think it needs a little debuff (like 25/30% of damage)
-Purple sun of xereus is too strong too, it's doing like 50% damage on a weak goblin unit and wrecking the formation as it goes on the battlefield.
I think the "debuff to formation" it does is huge already, and as the spell costs the same as bijuma, I think it needs to be lowered by 15%/20% for its damage

---vampire/necromancy magic feels right, only one spell is kind of overpowered :
-wind of death
I understand the spell needs some kind of prep work (units should be in line for best results) and that is where the Ai come to play : just put a line of, say , 8 skeletons, they will match with another line of infantry, have 2 necromancers cast from both sides and the line will get annihilated with just 2 spells.
Maybe VS another player it will be more balanced but I feel the spell need some downgrade with either its damage (25% or 30% damage?) or the area of effect (a shorter line of effect).

---empire different realms of magic
All feels about right, only the fire aoe spells feels overpowered too :
-tempest of fire is monstruous ! You can murder an elite unit with just one spell (grave guards).
-Head of flame (not sure about that translation since i'm not playing in english, above left spell on the fire mage spell UI 12 mana cost/45 seconds charge) is too much of a killer too.
If you have a little luck with the movements of the spell, you can almost annihilate 2 or 3 elite stacks of units (again grave guards)

---Realm of iron (Balthazar Gelt)
-Hand of lead, although at 7 mana cost (which is low) as almost no effect at all : it kills some goblins/skeletons and thats it
Needs some buff maybe 15%/20% damage
-Gehenna is fine as it is, just if some luck is here, it will wreck almost too much units (even etlites as grave guards), needs some tuning, like 10%/15% damage decrease

ANd thats it !
Great mod, hope to help you and enjoy this !

Thanks for the great feedback aleks93190! Very detailed. I will have a look at those things you mentioned over the coming days, as I play more!

Hand of Lead, which is suppose is Transmutation of lead, can be really powerful if used right. It's actually not so much a spell to kill small units, but rather a spell to kill generals. It has the disadvantage of being an area of effect; this means it can not focus on a general unless he's isolated. If he is isolated however, and the whole spell will only target him (or any other giant monster, such as a dragon for example) it will do massive damage!

I will have a look at wind of death; it seemed fine in campaign, as you can not often really hit more than couple units reliably; and if you lock them into combat in a line, there is a chance that wind of death blows away your own units! I will consider changing some of the AP damage to normal damage, or reducing dmg altogether.

Purple Sun sounds like it's working as intended actually; it's very expensive to cast, and it should feel like one of those big effect spells. Perhaps I've overdone it slightly; but hearing that it kills something now, without killing an entire formation, is actually just what I wanted!

Tested Fate of Bjuna just now, it's getting a slight nerf.

For the other things, particularly the fire and metal lore, I need to play with them more. I've not had much chance to test it, as I've been pushing out the other lores so rapidly to finish the mod!

Keep the feedback coming please :)

On second thought, will do minimal adjustments to the fire lore spells you mentionned; I might've overdone the damage, as they don't have armor piercing but only regular damage.

Will test the waaaghs spells now, expect feedback shortly :)

Thank you aleks! I'll be signing off for the night shortly though, and tomorrow is probably going to be a busy day. No update in the next 18 hours or so :)

yup well i'm off for the first MP battle using some greenskins ^^

Updates on greenskins magic

Feels about right, spells are balanced and do the right amount of damage for their mana cost and side effects.
Two notes though :

-Gork's feet for 20 mana with orc shaman
It disrupts the enemy line ok, but for 7 mana you have head butt (well again dont have the english version but that should fit the name aproximatily) that does more damage and disrupts the line a little.
I think gor'ks feet should receive a slight buff to damage or maybe the area of effect.

-Bijuma
Again the spell murders a black orcs unit leaving them with 1/3 HP at most, same for orc boyz (maybe it's armor piercing?) with targeting a unit, different than targeting a zone = less risk
Tried it on a hexwraith infantry unit, it did around 90%/95% damage wich is insane even for an etheral unit with low HP.

The 50% fail chance doesn't work at intended (I casted it around 15 times whithout a fail).

Maybe you could erase the "miss chance" and tone down again the damage :
while it's a unique spell line for Mannfred and Azahg, it seems too powerfull when testing other abilities from the same lore of magic, the problem is, as it is, when playing Azhag / Mannfred, people will save the mana only for this spell, meaning other spells won't get much of a use
I suggest you try to reduce the damage by 20%/25% while keeping it's armor piercing damage (it's a high end spell after all) and erasing the miss chance, that would make it powerfull and meaningfull while keeping other spells worthy

On another note, dont know how much you can tweak or modify the spells, but it could be interresting to make casters more different :
Example for orc shaman and goblin shaman
As intended by CA, even though both have mono damage spell and aoe spell, the goblin focuses more on debuffing ennemy while the orc shaman is more on the buffing side

It's well expressed with greenskins, and maybe you could do something for empire wizards as the 4 lores of magic do pretty much the same (aoe/mono damage, some buff and debuff) while staying true to the lore.
when I was fielding the 4 empire wizards, I was wondering the differences, and even though the fire wizard is clearly "offensive oriented", the other one are kind of "jack of all trades".

You could do something along those lines :

fire mage = damage
light wizard = support or/and heal /damage (he has the priest skin and feeling)
celestial wizard = damage and buff

I'm not a warhammer lore professor but it could fit the bill alright as long as you keep some damage spells on all wizards

Thanks for your great feedback Aleks! It's invaluable to me.
I didn't hold word and went on to test some myself, so errr... there's another update out now! :P

Your suggestions have been considered in the update. Check the change notes for details!
Also note that all vampire heroes, not generals, have access to lore of death, as well as chaos sorcerers; it's not unique to the two legendary heroes.

I'm not confident enough in my lore knowledge to do complete overhauls of wizards/lores of magic as you suggest, although I like the idea. Additionally, if I were to remove spells/add new ones, it would remove savegame compatibility; I suppose I can work around that by just renaming everything and giving it new descriptions, but then I would need translations and stuff for other languages. I'm not quite there yet; game is barely out and I'm still getting a grasp of the modding tools at this point :)

I mostly go by ear and with the spell descriptions. Some descriptions sound like the spell would obviously do something it doesn't, then I add that. Mostly I try for balance though while retaining some of the personality.

Could you do me a favor and have a look at the Celestial and Light wizards? I feel like comet of casandora does underperform in my limited testing, but I didn't have the best setup for it either.

Anyway, I'll be looking forward to more feedback!

But now it's really time to go for me :D

Thanks Aleks!

Hi, tested greenskins changes, they feel right and balanced, good job!


Hand of lead : you should change the tooltip, it says its an aoe spell while it's better on heroes / mono
a little buff to damage would be nice, like 10/15% damage, even on a hero, it's lacking a little even though balthazar is said to be the most powerfull wizard of the empire


As for fire wizard :

damages are balanced as it is now, spells reflect cost per mana and side effects and are well toned when looking at others lore magics

Feedback on Celestial wizard :

-Comet of Casandora
Feels a bit weak, 14 mana at 5 sec cast, as it is, casted it on black orcs and orc boyz, did between 800 and 1050 damage which is underperformirg for a spell that costy
maybe you can add some disruptance to ennemy line and buff the damage like 15%?

-Tornado
Feels too strong for the cost (8 mana) and the side effect of bumping units back, did it a dozen of times and damage average between 3000 and 3500 which is a bit insane for the cost/side effects.
You should tone its damage by 40/50%, it's just too strong as it is.

-Uranon's lightning
Does around 500 damage for 9 mana and the risk that units will move before the spell is casted.
This needs some buff, should do a little bit more than tornado, maybe around 1500 damage since it's a low mana cast

Maybe, since celestial wizard has so much aoe spells, you could make uranon's lightning do single target damage (if possible), that would balance a little since killing enemy commanders and casters is so important, I feel like the celestial wizard is lacking that a lot, and wont be much played as it is.
(fire wizard is the embodiment of power with some nice buffs while light wizard has great utility combined with aoe and mono spell)


Light wizard :

-Shem
Works as intended, damage is on par with other mono spell so it's okay (between 900 and 1300 damage)
-Banish (aoe)
Works well, did around 3000 damage as the spell was moving, it even moved on my own troops (haha) so the cost, 14 mana, and the power is well balanced sinced its a risky spell

-Birona's distorsion
I feel the spell is lacking, the lore behind is the magic of light accelerating everything etc
96% speed is too much, I feel the speed bonus should be nerfed like 30% and add some charge damage like +30 charge bonus
It would make the spell more usefull like buffing a strong heavy cavalry or even infantry that will flank enemy

Well thats it, if you need more testing, i'll find the time to do so, all around, your spell mod seems to be the most balanced out there and I hope it gets even better.

Thank for the work Molay

Ah and for the translations, I could do it in french if you ever need translators :)

Keep it up !

Thanks aleks! I'll make those changes later today when I'm back home! All very useful and saved me lots of testing :)

I will look at the descriptions for the effects as well when I do the changes. Want it to feel a bit more polished.

Take your time, you're not paid for this ^^

Also could be usefull for other people to add some feedback, you could even further refine the mod

Dont know if its my imagination, but the recharge rate for the winds of magic seems not to take your the magic reserve into account. Had over 59 reserve left but it recharged only ever 10 seconds. Or is this normal?.

Very good mod! =)

Think you have some spells/techniques to make it faster
Mana recharge slower and slower as you use up magic

So, here's what you can do with 5 spells, costing 31 Magic, to a unit of Greatswords with 3 Wizards.

+78% Weapon Damage
+114% Armour Piercing Damage
+ 78 Defense
+42% Missile Resistance
+165% Fire Resistance
+64% Damage Resistance
+95 Armour
+96% Speed
+48 Melee Attack
+40 Leadership

So, your Greatswords now have

Armour=195 (from 100)
Leadership=121 (from 81)
Speed=68 (from 35)
Melee Attack=83 (from 35)
Melee Defense=106 (from 28)
Weapon Strength=57 (from 32) (114% Armour Piercing Damage)
No change in charge bonus.

So...My unit of Greatswords killed 8 units of Dwarf Warriors alone, and only lost 7 men.