@pinrrealain66 Updated description with link, as per your request. :)

Greeting Rollar.

Can you put the link for the mod for decodance in your description above?
It is easy to miss in the wall of text that is the comment sections.

Thank you. I am looking forward to try your great mod.

@Basileus Thanks for the feedback. The way the mod is designed, it would require me to duplicate every existing entity that creates both as one that creates either, and hope the player doesn't click the wrong skill when starting the game. It's a fair amount of work, and with AoW3's poor ability to cache mods, it'd eat up more memory, making it more likely to crash in multiplayer when used in conjunction with other mods.
I do appreciate the thought, but it's better to keep it as lean as possible.

My only issue with this mod is that some terrain gives you undead population which is weird if you don't play necromancer. It should be changed to necromancer only. It is just a little immersion-breaking.

@Dragon I actually already made a compatability mod for Decodance. https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2080192372
I have not tested it in some time, though unless they reworked it it should still function fine.

As for the Return of Wonders; that mod itself appears to be fairly extensive and part of a larger project. I don't think it would mix well with this one.

Also are you able to patch it up with the Decodence - Map Editor Content, and Decodence - RMG Integration so that it can work with the Tundra and Autumn themes, for the purpose of producing pop, production and gold on the map?

Any chance to make a compatibility patch for Return of Wonders - Spheres and Spells, so we can upgrade the Mines and Farms, maybe even upgrading the other structures as well?

Okay, thanks a lot for the info. I'll have a look at the files and if I find the time and motivation, may be I'll experiment a little bit. It's impressive what you guys accomplished already in keeping this game alive.

@scip HEROGLOBALSETTINGS.RPK, change the category to Global Settings, and then the (only) line 0, Global Hero Settings. Hero Upkeep Cost is what I changed (0 to 10), the line you want to edit is Skill Points Per Level, which is at the default of 5.

This mod actually went through a bunch of different changes since I originally started it (you can see some of the details in my patch notes). At one point buildings gave % resource increases and all had upkeeps. However, it was causing a lot of compatability issues with mods we were running, such as overriding PBEM building changes. In the end I figured out how to apply most of what I wanted through skills to keep the impact on other mods at a minimum.

The only way you can add features to city upgrades is to alter the city upgrade itself. Races you have to edit the race itself (you can't make race specific skills to research without altering the race file). Both result in compatability issues with other mods.

Thanks for the fast reply! Fortress Additions Addendum mod was a false positive from me. The conflict came from another mod, which I didn't expect to conflict with builders in any way. So sorry for that.
As for the skill points, I expected already it has something to do with the upkeep for heroes.
I never got into fiddling with mod files an always got annoyed that there is no simple way to change priority of mods that are exported.

Maybe it's time to look into that matter. Which file consists the changes for the heroes? Maybe I'm able to make a personal patch.

Btw did you consider to link the hex income to buildings or even races?

@scip Thank you!

There should not be any compatability issues with the Fortress Additions Addendum mod. My mod adds the changes to builders through avatar skills, not altering the builder itself. If I recall, the only things my mod edits for existing files is the heroes upkeep and the element skills.

Regarding the skill points, it's because the increased upkeep for heroes and the skill rewarded are in the same entry. If you move your mods priority to higher than mine, that part of my mod won't trigger, but the rest should be fine.

Hey Rollar, thanks for your work. I really like these concepts. There is another mod with similar ideas and it tied the income of the tiles to buildings built in the city. But it was incompatible with my unit mods. So I was happy to see your mod. Unfortunately your mod is incompatible to "Fortress Additions Addendum" mod because of the changes to builders.
But why does your mod affect how much skill points my heroes get at level up? With your mod activated it reverts to 5 skill points. Without i get 10.

@White Squall You are correct, it is an investment. You also get bonuses from happiness and the like that improves the output whilst not changing the cost of construction, and with hexes producing a resource already the costs aren't that bad. The idea is it being your choice to develop early and gain the benefits later or focus on traditional expansion.

Have extra gold sitting in your coffers? Throw up a builder upgrade. Running low? Maybe focus on your military conquests.

the thing thats turning me off atm, is the "small gold mine" which costs 70 gold. then takes 2 turns to build, and takes 50 pop only to give +5 gold a turn. so it will be 16 turns before the mine ends up actually paying for itself. and by then, youll be 17 turns through before you get a profit of 5 gold. which really makes it seem like its not worth it unless you already make a lot of gold per turn and can afford to throw a bunch away massing them around a city deep in your territory as some sort of investment.

@Anderson Thank you for the feedback. The -50 population is to keep players from carpeting their cities early with gold mines. Building a farm or corrupted farm (if you're a Necromancer) counters the penalty, and still nets you 4 gold.

Unfortunately, the population penalty all but disappears late game, as your population growth cannot become negative, meaning once you hit metropolis, short of an enemy killing off your population with a spell or a city conquer effect, you can run all gold mines with no penalty. I'm considering in the future a mod to make building units require population, much like settlers, to enhance the usefulness of farms, but that mod is not going to happen anytime soon, as it'll require compatability mods to work with any other mods that add units.

Very interesting mod.
I think the -50 population for the gold-related upgrades is excessive, but otherwise this is very nice.

This should be the final version of this mod, unless some bugs are discovered. Again, please let me know about translation issues.

@Fonzosh, that's definitely been considered lol.
there's things that seem like they could be done, but it would have to be a hard coded mod, Like Rollar says, the mod editor they included is a bit limited.

A shame, it would have been such a cool thing. It would have expanded the naval aspect and the whole guerilla tactic. Just think about it, the possibility to build elite troops and at the same time attack other tradelines.

@Fonzash It's not do-able from what I know of in the game. The unit actions are very rigid with what they can do; automated movement isn't possible, nor is there a way to "deliver" in order for the gold generation. I also haven't found any way to make cities measure the hexes from another, each is a separate entity that doesn't interact with each other.

I appreciate the idea though. Any others are welcome.

What do you say?

I guess that this change would be such a huge work (if it is even possible since it changes the whole concept of the game) that maybe get together with other good modders are a good idea. Also, have a tech tree evolution of the trade unit. For example
Trade - 3 traders with xbows. Carry one 1 special resource/X mana/gold
Advanced trade - 6 traders with xbows. +1 speed. Carry one 2 special resource/X mana/gold
Armored trade - 6 traders with muskets and pistols. Armored. +2 speed. Carry one 2 special resource/X mana/gold.
The trade unit is an acutal unit (not like Civ VI) that you have to catch to hijack. It is on auto move between the two cities/outposts.

I have a suggestion that would revolutionize the game. Add trade! I have been thinking about this a lot and even sent the suggestion to Triumph but they didnt even bother to answer. I suggest the following. A trade unit like Civ VI that creates roads. Sending it to a vassl/other gives you extra gold/man. Having a trade between 2 of your cities allows you to transport "special material" like the crystal tree. Each Special resource produce 1 resource each turn and these are tradeable. Of course you are able to piratize the trade route. I know this is very complicated, but think of what would happen with the game

This looks nice, I will give it a go

I did not fully test all the node combinations for the small elemental node conversions. Let me know if anyone sees one not functioning, please.

Builder upgrades can disappear from a unit that was building when you load a game. Saving and loading the game again while that unit is on the map results in them getting the skills twice. Only fixable by directly linking abilities to the builder, which could interfere with compatability issues, so it'll have to stay like that.

Updated and rebalanced again. Hopefully this one will stick. This should be the last core update for this part of the mod, unless tweaks are needed. I may add a node conversion spell to change the small mana node into a small *element* node.

I'm not happy with my mod needing to alter every city upgrade in the game, it makes it have compatability issues with other mods. I'm trying to think of a satisfactory way to change that. I'm also going to look for an alternative way to apply hero upkeep, freeing up that compatability issue as well.

Uploaded a new version, rebalanced a lot of hexes amongst other changes. Seems a bit too generous, though, may have to rebalance again. Other changes in change notes.

I've restructured the mod, putting both builder upgrades and tile resources into their own skills. The builder upgrade works perfectly, the tile resources, though, only show up while within a cities domain now. I rather dislike it, but for compatability reasons, I'll be keeping it that way.

I spent hours trying to get something similar to work for the city upgrades, alas I cannot find any way to alter a city upgrade through a skill without that city upgrade already being modified (thus rendering the skill method irrelevant).

This still SHOULD work with my decodance compatability mod. I'll see if I can't update that in the next few days to work with my new setup. Once it's done, it should not have any more compatability issues.

I'm not familiar with what elven sites are. Are they another form of terrain?

I'm going to try and restructure the mod to fix some of the compatability issues. If I can link the changes to tier 0 avatar skills, most of the problems should up and vanish (you'll still need the decodance compatability mod, though).

Thanks for the feedback on the builder upgrades. Increasing population is definitely going to be needed, not sure about the production; I intend to add a % increase to all the resource related structures in your cities, so the resource output of those will increase. I may also add some researchable skills to increase them further in late game.

The upkeep idea is interesting... it may be something to look at further down the development road. I don't really want to raise the initial cost of these structures, as the AI will raze them.

Hey Rollar. Compatibility mod(with decodance) works nice. But have some conflict with racial heritage mod. For example, elven sities dont gather resources from autumn and tundra sites.

This is not the main reason why I write.
I want tell you about my opinion in builders upgrades. Mines and mana nodes is good, but farms and careers looks like usless to upgredes. Maybe has the mening increase cost and production of that constructions.
6 population and 3 production is too small bonus for upgrade and spam of this looks horrible.
What about:
200 gold 50 mana cost - 60 population
500 gold 100 mana - 20 producton
I think that looks balanced and usefull. Or maybe it can cost not so much but can have maintenance like:
100 gold 50 mana cost = +60 population -10 gold
300 gold 100 mana = +20 production -10 gold

that u think?
And thank u for compability mod and this modification.

New update.Still have a few more things to do before this mod is out of alpha: fix builder build icons, rebalance city structures for economy purposes, see if I can possibly make heroes have an increasing upkeep as they level.

Side note: This is just an aspect of a total conversion mod I have plans to build. This particular mod should be compatible with most other mods, parts of my project will not. Stay tuned.

Oh, that great. Thanks Rollar. I will try it today.

Thanks to all for the feedback so far. I've finished adding maintenance costs to all the city buildings, and am currently working on adding builder upgrades directly to my mod. I'm hoping to have the update out in a few days.

@Chimera*FRW I made a quick Decodance compatability mod. https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2080192372

@Chimera*FRW The interface requires me to manually set the value of each climate-terrain type manually (for example, I had to set tropical-barrens separately from tropical-fertile). It's not a big deal, but as a result adding new terrain from another source (such as Autumn from Decodance) would have default values, which are zeroes.

I'll test and see if I can add them to the mod without forcing players to have to use Decodance; otherwise I'll have to build a seperate mod with Decodance solely in mind.

I like the domestic administration system of Civilization. This MOD granted the system. I like this very much. I want to support it as much as possible. (I'm sorry. ... that as I am a Japanese, English is not perfect)

Need compatibility with Decodance Map editor content and RMG integration. Decodance mod have 2 new types of biom. Your mod not see them like terrain(bcuse dont understand climate, i think).

Anyway, good job. Wait updates.

Thank you for your work. I like how it reminds me of tabletop games. Can't wait to try it out.

My first attempt at modding. Feel free to comment/criticize. I have other ideas in mind, but I don't seem able to find a spreadsheet .xml editor that will work.