@lordziffy - if the vassal doesn't have a Slaanesh protector, then yes, you can subjugate them yourself. If the protector is Slaaneshi, then you have to kill the protector first before attempting to subjugate

@LordOmlette I'm relatively new to the game especially the whole vassal system, but is it possible for another faction to take someone else's vassal? Because I remember them getting vassalized by another faction. Unfortunately, I'm not entirely sure if it happened immediately or a turn after they seceded

The Bloodletting Adventure, specifically the quest to kill the champion of Khorne. His army spawns in the Bloodfire Falls province somewhere between The Monolith of Festerlung and The Burning Monolith settlements. It kinda dissappeared over the end turn, directly in the territory of Boris with 2 of his armies nearby, hence my assumption that he killed them, which I assumed is connected to this mod, though I might be wrong.

@ImmortalAzazel - it's on the TODO list

@GhostDragonz2000 - what faction were you playing, what vassal, and what settlement did they capture?

@FailSafe - it's in the script function stop_vassal_breakage

@lordziffy - not unless they lose their territory?

@fish - which adventure, which quest, and which army? Be specific please

There is a minor Issues with this mod and Malakai's adventures. Some adventures spawn armies you need to deafet for a quest, usually AI ignores those but I am pretty sure Boris (who I vassalized) killed one of the chaos armies since he automatically joined the war against the spawned faction, and locked me out of getting the quest reward.

So I just had one of the factions I brought back secede from me, should that be happening?

do you mind if I ask what was changed to stop vassals breaking away from you? is it just the DB settings to stop it happening if you refuse to help them if attacked or if they refuse to help you if you are attacked, or is there a script component?

I always like games where vassals can rebel as a general rule, makes things more interesting, though I'll admit not much experience in wh3 with this thus far, if there are annoying issues etc :)

Re: the dilemmas and their frequency - would it be possible to add some integration with MCT, that would allow you to configure dilemma frequency at the start of the campaign? I.e. I'm playing Vassal-swarm chaos, so I don't mind returning and gifting provinces to Norsca and seeing dilemmas when a province changes ownership, versus playing a 'selfish' chaos campaign where I want to keep all territory with special resources, and so basically always ignore the dilemma outside of Norsca homeland?

@Libellaria
I think that's the "Removed by popular demand." in the Description

"How big is this debuff? I did some tests, and it's pretty significant. It's a weapon strength reduction that scales up to -50% on the entire army that the leader lord commands. Even a small reduction is enough to noticeably reduce their contribution in battles, and anything about 30% can make the army lose against even the most trivial enemy armies even if their army is full of tier 3-5 troops. It doesn't affect secondary armies the vassal has that aren't led by the primary lord, but if the vassal is small then they probably won't have many of those. "

" So it turns out that "fighting stronger enemies" doesn't entirely prevent the debuff, and depending on who else you're fighting it might not have much of an impact at all. What the mod actually looks for is whether you're fighting any enemies weaker than your vassal in terms of overall power ranking. Get declared on by a random beastmen faction? Your vassals get a debuff. Fighting a rogue army faction? Your vassals get a debuff. Fighting some pirates? Your vassals get a debuff. Fighting a chaos faction that has some weak vassals of their own? Your vassals (probably) get a debuff."

"Don't use the "Fudging Vassals" mod, it secretly massively nerfs your vassals"

i found this reddit threat.. is that true? does this mod make ur vassals even more useless? wow... making vassals good and nerf them at the same time military wise.... what a pitty....

Hi, so for some reason my ROC campaign when my vassals take a settlement I don't get any pop-up to have it instead if I want. I don't know if this on my end or not, as I don't really have any other mods that affect vassals other then this one.

@bibiox - I play at least 1 Elspeth campaign a week and I haven't had a problem leveling the gunnery school all the way up.

There is a gunnery training grounds bug for the Elspeth campaign , cant see the requirements for the level 2 upgrade, and cant fulfil those requirements. I narrowed it down to this mod.

@Aliass - sorry for not responding earlier. I did put this down as something to investigate and promptly forgot about it. I'll try to take another look soon.

@Noodliest - am painfully aware that this is the most requested feature for this mod.

@The Dragon - yes you can add this mid-playthrough, but it works best with a new campaign. It works in multiplayer.

@Gingusa - I would love to get rid of the "I'm sorry" dilemma at least but CA refuses to even consider thinking about looking at any of my bug reports so it's not likely soon.

@Shamaster - once the Norsca rework hits, I'm hoping there will be even more usable farmland.

@LordOmlette

You are clearly a skilled and experienced modder. If I could make a request then it would be a smaller side mod that makes it impossible for vassals to break away.

Your mod has many features but I wonder if it's possible for some of these features to be made into single mods so that we have more of a choice/option for what features we want.

Of course it's only a request.

@hamletsdead - thank you for the kind words.

@DudeChris33 - am aware, but previous attempts to fix this either crashed in single-player or caused desyncs in multi-player, so I'm probably not going to revisit this.

@Espritviril`` - welcome back.

@Ooh-la-la, It's GAGA!! - one thing I learned from The Twisted & The Twilight is that everyone loves dilemmas, so the thing I think about constantly is how to add more dilemmas.

@ᛁᛖᛊᚢᛊ ᚨᚱ ᚷᚢᛞ - the more generals a faction has, the greater their supply line penalty and the more likely they'll go bankrupt. Since all forces take attrition when a faction goes bankrupt, that makes a vassal more likely to lose a fight. I've been told recently that's a bad thing.

@round pp - as clearly stated both in the description and in the compatibility page, if an endgame scenario does not use CA's endgame:declare_war function, then it's excluded. If they changed their mod to use that function, then I can take another look.

@ZeButcher888 - a general by itself is useless and is what's actually causing the vassal to become poorer.

@babypudgy - they have enough problems, they don't need me making more work for them.

@Hefestion - because I don't want my vassals to break away.

"If your vassal has a general that doesn't move or recruit for more than 2 turns and it isn't a legendary character or faction leader, then that general will be disbanded."

I wish this was removed from the mod :/ I don't even see a reason as to why it's even in the mod

Does not work with Chaos Invasion Mod, it will cause that mod to break

"If your vassal has a general that doesn't move or recruit for more than 2 turns and it isn't a legendary character or faction leader, then that general will be disbanded."

anyone else experience a problem with this? when at peace, and especially if the vassal is land locked, it keeps spending money on creating armies that dont go anywhere and get disbanded... and since its getting poorer and poorer this way, it ends up stuck in a cycle of creating tier 1 armies

Author. Have you connected with Creative Assembly yet?
This mod should be the standard or at least, be taken as a primary inspiration for an official vassal system rework.

why not allow vassal to declare war to his boss for ending the alliance and liberating?

Thanks a million for this. My stupid vassal keeps poaching major citadels from me right after I raze them (to get the souls) and it was killing me not to be able to discipline them properly for taking their rightful lord's goodies. Kudos for the work!!

Bug: I was playing as tamurkhan and couldn't declare war on nakai's vassal faction. I declared war on Nakai himself and they probably would have joined at the start of the next turn, but it meant I couldnt attack the settlement I wanted to.

Okay so playing Archeon and I was mad that my vassals wont join my wars just because thy were allies of my enemy. Just enabled this mod and voila next turn my vassals joined all my wars.

I used to love this mod then saw the shadow-nerfed vassals and unsubbed. Now frustrated by vanilla vassals, I came back. It is amazing that you took the feedback and updated the mod to remove the nerfs. No drama, no denial.

I appreciate all your work and glad you took this route. I can finally be back to promote this mod!

The mod is mkay, but constant LET THEM KEEP THE REGION is very annoying, pls remove it

Hello hello, thank for this mod!
Could it be possible to add a rull than vassal can't break your cults in theire cities?

Would it be possible in the future to disable the popup? So Vassals can just do there thing, having to click the pop up each time I want to TAKE or GIVE the captured region gets tiring :(

Can I put this on mid playtrough? Also does it work in head to head coop multiplayer? Thanks!

hey man, this mod is great, but having to answer "If you capture a region in an unsuitable climate, you'll be asked if you'd rather gift it to a vassal better suited to that climate". every single time gets annoying sometimes especially when you are on a roll in lategame, im also using mods that let me acclimate to the climate of the settlement anyway, would be nice if your mod was used in the Mod Configuration Tool mod. and we could enable or disable parts of the mod at will. especially this question that pops up multiple times a turn and even shows the extra sorry screen a lot too lmao.

Im glad the farmland in Norsca is being put to good use. Lots of space there for the Terracotta sentinels to run around and play.

So I was testing a different mod and I watched as Arbaal the Undefeated attacked a half-dead Roppsmen Clan stack in force march and got completely wiped out. Poof, all 2500 grudge points up in smoke. I'm surprised no one's mentioned it before... or maybe they did and I just forgot?

If you haven't played as Masters of Innovation (from Thrones of Decay DLC) or Kraka Drak (Cataph's Norse Dorfs mod), I strongly recommend checking them out. They're both a blast!

great mod, thanks

I don't have anything productive to add, but just wanted to say thank you to @LordOmlette for the great mod!

Love the mod, and i'm glad to hear the vassal nerfs aren't on by default. Though I wouldn't mind having an option to toggle a mild version for balance personally.

If you get in the mood to tinker, any chance of making the "No vassal seceding" thing an MCT toggle? I looked through the mod trying to do it myself, found some references to it in a script, but wasn't entirely sure i was looking at the right part because it listed drycha as the faction?

I'll still be happy with the mod either way, just figured it wouldn't hurt to ask.

Thank you LordOmlette for the changes and keeping up the mod up to date

@LordOmlette I misread the comment. I read "commented on" rather than "commented out". Which explains much. Thanks. This has always been a great mod that I've been using for a long time. I appreciate modders and their efforts. Thanks again.

I love reading your script comments by the way...it looks like you are occasionally having internal crisis, and just letting it out 😂. Love it. Anyway, keep up the great work.

@IronCore - as Arcrier said, it was removed Friday afternoon

Where do you see the vassal debuff? I'm curious about its effects, but I'm not sure to find it in game.

+1 On making the vassal nerf optional.

I've always found even before the change vassals seem to get absolutely brutalised most of the time...so they need as much encouragement as possible to field good stacks and to build outposts in my settlements so they can field as many support units as they can afford. As sometimes... The less I have to do the better especially with distant territories, I'd rather them be supported financially so they can sustain themselves, without having to confederate them.

I'm more than happy to make the changes myself back but I fear for the average user, it would have a detrimental impact to their games. Just my 2p, I too would like to see it as a variable option, if possible.

I strongly agree with the rest of the people here, for factions like WOC and Slaanesh Vassals are important. Additionally I dont agree that having to dig into the mod and change the values manually is a ideal solution given how updates work.

The mod is wonderful, and I dont want to imply any malice, though I do strongly urge a consideration to maybe allow the nerf value to be scaled or toggled from the mod menu as others have said.

Can y'all chill? LordOmlette already commented out the part of the script that nerfs weapon strength

Thank you LordOmlette for this awesome mod! After looking through the scripts, I'm amazed at how comprehensive it is!

lord omelette, give my vassals real weapons and not pool noodles and my life is yours

999%?? BROS VASSALS ARE GONNA HEAL THEM DURING BATTLES LOL

I agree with everyone else here. I am not a fan of destroying vassals' damage output. They are already weak and rarely engage in combat.