You did not make the third lines in investigations: military engineering and civil construction.

nice now you can be sparta or athens and feel it.

Hi! Very interesting idea making the game philosophical.

@Hammer30, '' I prefer change everything step by step to find the best combo'', that's it ! Me too. I don't like the overhauls because it insert a lot of personal opinions. Could you list what mods do you use ?

Yes I am sure. It cant be done. I have sent a friends request. If you accept you can send me messages. Cheers

Many thanks to you @Phalangitis to answer us. And for your excellent mods. Too bad abilities cannot be unlocked in specific circumstances. Not accurate. In reality a tired unit cannot initiate ''Head Hunt'', for example, even they have this ability on start. But I think I saw somewhere, now forgot in which mod, a very complex use of abilities (a precise timer until effect gone, number of times ability can be used, and more....). On other way, you said it's impossible to unlock new abilities with experience gains....could you verify again this ? If isn't possible, that's highly inacurate too. And last, to not fill here the comments, is somewhere another place where we can dialog ?

@Leuname
Yest specific abilities do exist but they either exist from the start or not at all. They cannot be unlocked under specific circumstances. You want for example a cavalry unit to gain the wedge ability after it gets experience or loose it if it gets too tired. This cannot happen. The cavalry if it has the ability will get it from start. In order to gain the ability through the course of time it can only happen as described below.
For manuals check youtube. There are plenty. There is also a tutorial section in Total War Center but I must warn you that you need to sacrifice any many hours to learn. Thanks to all for this interesting exchange of opinions.

BTW, do you know a manual for working with PFM ? For example I wanted to compile several mods into a single one, without alter startpos, and end with some databases tables writen in red, others in blue, yellow, etc....I think it's for something, maybe incompatibilities, but I need more infos.

Hammer30, ''I'm not looking for big mods like DEI that change all, I prefer change everything step by step to find the best combo'', that's the point ! I agree 100%.

Phalangitis, seems we talking about different things....I talk for example the wedge formation of a cavalry unit, or head hunt ability which is only for specific units.....if one mellee unit have ''head hunt'' option I don't think all other units will benefit from it (in fact it is not present virtually to all units like you suggest)

There is nothing like that in DEI in think ^^ Do you think we can import the ability unlock from Warhammer total war ? I saw some people import things from attila, maybe it's possible for Warhammer ? I don't think it is but maybe ^^

On the contrary this is the problem. The slingers would get the obligue phalanx as a possibility to be used in combat. If they could not use it then problem solved.. As I said, the ability becomes available for all units not just the desired ones. I dont know what DEI has done because I havent played DEI for personal - historic reasons but I doupt they could do specficaly triggered abilities for specific units. I mean, unless I am completely mistaken (which I doupt) it is impossible to unlock abilities with fatigue/ unit experience etc. I think that probably those abilities you speak of are universal abilities shared among all units and not specific abilities unlocked under specific circumstances and for selected units only. If you are sure though I would appreciate an example and I will have a look in DEI files and get back to you

Thank you for all of these answers !
I'm sure some simple mods can be made in normal game. I'm not looking for big mods like DEI that change all, I prefer change everything step by step to find the best combo ^^ For now I'm looking for a mod that low a bit attrition when you siege a city. I put many mods that up the garrison making the siege of a city more essential. But the problem is attrition in normal game is to damn high and I only find mods that erase attrition but I don't like it because it's a good think that CA added attrition for armies which siege a city.
I will look for the DLC and Hellenika so, see if it's worth !
Cheers !

OK, I understand; you said all abilities are managed via the general tough it appear only to be clicked on unit. Hmmmmmm, so how DeI worked out to do a great job here ? Also, even all units benefit from this ''general'' ability, in your example, the slingers, the ''obligue phalanx'' will not be showed for them (slingers); so, nothing to bother here at all. Why are you concerned so ?

P.S When I say general abilities I do not mean that the effects are clicked from the general. The effect is appearing on uinits BUT in modding when you construct the effect you use a general ability which is called "unlock ability". This does not show it is only done in db tables. The outcome though is as described. Yes an ability is unlocked but this ability is shared to all units. Anyway its a bit technical sorry if I am confusing you.

I understood. As I said unit abilities are unlocked only from general abilities. THis is the only (and unfortunately not realistic at all) way in Rome 2. Also this ability unfortunately when unlocked is given to all troops. So for example If we want to give a specific phalanx formation to a unit this is given to all. Example. Lets say we have Theban hoplites and we want after a certain date to gain the obligue phalanx formation. This is given only through general abilities and all even slingers will get this ability.. Go figure

All other attempts to tweak unit abilities in battle are usually imperfect like our "order system". With imagination, some obstacles can be bypassed but usually not effectively. I coulod take a look in some examples as you suggest but I doupt they are working as intented. I think I have extensive experience in the subject never the less there are always margins for improvement

@Phalangitis, I mean unit abilities, not general abilities. For example, unit with gained chevrons IMHo must have new abilities and/or more fired ones. I mean for example if a unit have battle rhitm, than this must to have a time limit and a fixed number of accessing, say 2 times / battle; and this to be related on unit condition: a fatigued one cannot acces it, for example. As the unit gain experience, it acquire new abilities and/or more time limits, number of access, less penalties fron unit state (say fatigue). And this can be coupled with the general ones which can be very very useful. I know this is possible, DeI have implemented that in some sort, and I forgot the mods where I have seen that.

@Hammer30, so I. I put together many mods into a single one with PFM, but I have a question: when a table have many sub-tables, say, main_units with a dozen sub-ones including the main_units one, how that it is loaded in the game engine ? Only one, first in aphabetic order, all ones in alphabetic order, or how ???

Thank you for your spent time to answer. But I remain on my position; many can be done within game engine but moders have personal opinions. From what I played and seen in RTW2, 12 TPY is the most accurate possible that can be done here, BTW. And I have more than 100 write down ''axiomas''.

we can talk whatever other ideas you have but trust me (sorry if this will sound arrogant). IF it is not in Hellenika it cannot be done. We spent 90% of mod development to research. I am still open to give whatever other answers I can though and there is always a possibility to have missed something.
Cheers

1/2
- 12 TPY has many problems and buggs unfortunately. (I dont know how this could be related to historic authenticity though)
- Turn of recruitment. This exists. For example Spartan hoplites (reserve) need almost 21 turns and reerve plain hoplites 12 and slingers 1. Time is reduced with many ways though. All units having 1 turn recruitment are the already existant battle ready troops. Sparta for example when war started had 10,000 ready hoplites. These men (with their aprpopriate caps) are available in 1 turn cause they were ready. If you want to train more though (reserve troops) you have fluctuating recruitment times

2/2
- Attrition. This exists even in vanilla however there are not many "attrition" cases in medeteranean plain. Winters are not that icy cold and even if they were campaigning was limited to summer and autumn
- the rest about gradual unlocking abilities cannot happen with the game mechanics. New Abilities are linked to generals only. So only a general can unlock or offer a new ability to a unit (and usually this ability is given to ALL units of the army). So as you can see this is not possible. We cannot have a single unit change its abilities with experience.

I already have a lot of mods making the game more balanced and hard, actually I'm working on making the mod "more AI armies" a bit more balanced. If you're interested I made a collection with a lot of good mods of the workshop from the most famous to those which comes from the dark side of the workshop ^^

I'm also looking for political mods (I saw many but there is always something I don't like) or naval mods. I found some but they had new units and I won't because I'm using mods that makes recruitement cost highter and if I add mods units it doesn't affect them and makes the game unbalanced.

And the principles work for every aspect: units, construction, politics, resources, etc, etc, etc.......

In the range of the game engine a lot can be done (accurate); for example:
- 12TPY
- turns of recruitment based on unit category
- army attrition in enemy territory when harsh seasons
- gradual units abilities and formations (better units have more abilities and formations)
- ability refiring number depending on units status ( a weak morale unit cannot using some abilities, for example; NO unlimited firings; better units have more firings per battle; etc, etc)
-etc, etc, etc,
I can add a ton of possible and welcomed game principles, if want to.

1/2
This game's engine has many limitations unfortunately. We cannot do many of the desired stuff and most of the creators are trying to use various ways to bypass the system inflexibilities. For example I would like rtank depth to influence phalanx's performance but game mechanics cannot permit.So I was forced to make the "othismos" ability for such cases which is not working as realistically it should BUT at least it brings even in an blunt and unperfected way the strategic choice to the player to form tighter and thicker formations (as in History).
Now for the perspective part yes reading various historic researchers you often realize how differently history appears through the eyes of different people and for this we went straight to the source. All we have done to Hellenika is based to Thucididis himself. Not from our interpretation.

2/1
I would appreciate it very much if you could give me some examples of distorted personal historic perspective in Hellenika concerning historic facts. For campaign mechanism yes there could be found many because I again repeat there are many limitations. We in Hellenika though can support every single gameplay choice we got with mentions from Thucididis. Every stat and every mechanic was based in his work.
Thanks for the productive comments. Cheers

Yeah, Hellenika is very very good. But I must IMHO admit it suffer from the same illness as other overhaul mods...it reflects the personal opinion of the creator and this from my perspective as a humble history field researcher and teacher introduce many bad ideas....example of DeI which depleted completely the units from theirs formations and abilities, and a ton other excellent ideas rejected (not only), Radious other ones....and so on. I never encountered an overhauled mod which can be nominated as a respectable realistic ones, of course in terms of what can this game can do.. I don't know how to deep modding Rome 2 because if would I assure you that can be a hell of a mod.....instead I noted all guiding lines for that.l

Yes but only for wrath of sparta hehe the only dlc I don't have :')

I am trying always to make this game more tough and more of a challenge. Hellenika is in the top position (as for making the game difficult I mean). It can be a nightmare :P (but it is for WoS only)

Will you still makes mods like this for hardcore game ? Thanks anyway great mod !

Shit ! What excellent idea you have ! Most impressive for it's (historic) autenticity. Support it further.

@ elliot. THis mod changes nothing in technologies or recruitment. It only adds a small bonus or malus depending what tech you choose. I ma not sure that all the problems you describe are from this mod. One thing it cannot be done is change of letters size or box. THese are the Ui (user interface) and cannot be changed

I've had this for a while, but haven't played as much as I used to and I'm trying to replace or revise mods I have.

My question is, do all the technologies still work?

Also, I can't see all the things unlocked at certain levels because of this mod and it's difficult for me to figure out what I unlock in the future, because of all the bonuses. If possible, please make the box that displays the info larger so I can see both the troop bonuses and what your mod does.

In the meantime, if you have a second, please explain to me whether or not everything is still recruitable that was recruitable before using the mod.

edit- i said until after jesus died, but that was a mistake, they did get written after Jesus death, just not the death of his disciples.

furthermore, the 200-400 AD timeframe for documentation only checks written work. for that time period Rome made it illegal to worship Jesusn so they passed it down in over 500 ways through word of mouth, until there was an edict passed allowing christianity. when this happened there was a council that met called the council of nacaea where all the different forms of this early 'bible' got together and weeded out mistakes. if one said his name was john and every other one said jesus than they agreed his name was likely jesus, for example. they did this with every book of the new testament, including pauls letters, until they had a very accurate representation of the orriginal gospels as Mark, Luke, John, and Matthew would have passed them down. look into the council of nacaea for more information, but that doesn't mean the books didn't get written until after jesus died, just means they didn't get documented until 200-400 AD

@Spindel [-TAP-], christianity is a religion, and as such is bound to have people who do believe and those who don't, and i think it obvious where you fall. however, i don't think im alone in saying i would appreciate it if you would respect other views just as you told us to. you may not believe in what the bible says, but historians are hugely in agreement that Jesus was a real person who lived where the bible said he lived and died how the bible said he died and had his body dissappear from his tomb and never be found again, dispite a huge manhunt for it put on by the Roman Empire. these are historically documented facts. whether you beleive it or not doesn't make a difference in its accuracy or make it any more of a 'story' and less of a 'fact' thank you, ill respect your disbelief, but please respect my belief.

"unconfirmed 200-400AD" Tacitus bro

intresting how @LikkerdySplit misunderstands BCE and CE entirely apparently christans are the only ones to keep time in the world since ever.... furthermore we started keeping time from 0 because of Romans not because of Jesus... his story(i say story because it is a fictional account not once has it been proven to be anything but) didnt come cropping up until 200-400 CE so I dont know why you would assume it revolves around him in when reality with the decline of the Roman Empire Christianity and many other cultures and religions hijacked Roman work for their own gain... which is normal human behaviour out with the old in with the new.
-Be open to all sides of a die in before betting on its roll.
In other words to understand History look at all stories from all sides before claiming which one is most likely showing the truth as no one single History account is the truth by itself

@Phalangitis thanks for answering my question and yes I believe my emblem is R2TR
I will keep an eye on your stuff come winter holidays I plan to play RTW 2 again and will most likely give this ago will provide feed back at that time thanks for your efforts

added to my mod compilation

will get back to you on this Naja

This seems like a really cool mod. I have a suggestion: take it even further.

In addition to technologies, the BUILDINGS that you construct should impact your faction similarly.

Building economic buildings like ports, mines, forums, etc. should give you economic bonuses, but give you penalties to military-related effect bundles. Building military buildings like barracks, smiths, military ports, etc. should give you military bonuses and economic penalties.

This mod is yet one more good idea from Phalangitis. Well done!

till now yes i hadn't any problem and there is no reason to have any.Ai is not affected in its decisions in any way

Seems cool, but how does the AI react with this? Do they still act reasonably?

sorry rome 2... I gotta go.... EB2 awaits me.

And God bless you Phalangitis, I don't mean to hijack your little commentboard here but I must do as the Living God commands me and witness to the lost, that they might know how to be born-again and escape the roaring conflagration of hell that awaits.

Common Era begins in 0 AD at the birth of our Lord Jesus Christ, who died that sinful man might be saved, then rose again on the third day as according to the scriptures.

This concept is to remove any visage or memory of the dreaded Savior who died in place of sinful man, removed that we might forget His very memory.
What a cursed, Godforsaken thing, this modernistic Christ-hating doctrine of the world.

No, brothers, I asked as I knew, we all know what this ridiculous CE refers to and why it was instigated, as yet another reproach to Christ and the children of Light.
I tell you what though, i'll not stand for it, that's sin.