@Arias Man No, it wont work in vanilla due to the kv_morale table this mod edits is for DEI. I would also say any transition to the base game would need severe re balancing to work with vanilla stats

Does this also work for vanilla too? No real good morale tweaks just for base game

@Smokey-Yoke Absolutely

save game compatible ?

@Prince_Of_Ionia That is because the current TW engine(Warscape 2) doesnt have unit collision so that can happen. That is why those morale effects are not used in base DEI. However that makes battles into grindy bloodbaths. Hense this mod, if you dont exploit and play using historical tactics it has the intended effect. Unfortunately I cant fix the exploits that are enabled with this mod.

Ok, so in a battle I clearly should've lost, I just told my medium cav to charge literally through the enemy infantry, which then somehow technically counted as flanking and the entire enemy army ran.

@Prince_Of_Ionia Yes, they should work completely fine with each other
I personally use both of them

Does this mod work with this other one? https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3008997550&searchtext=DEI+realistic+charges

Outstanding Mod!!

This mod is awesome. I love DEI, but a lot of DEI battles turn into slow, frustrating slogs to the death, especially when phalanx units are involved. Units are hardly bothered by being outnumbered, surrounded, or being rearcharged by cavalry. That really frustrated me.
With this mod, that's finally fixed! Yeah, the morale mechanics can be exploited, but if you play normally, battles feel much more realistic.

@Kelpy G

Understood. Thank you very much :)

@Not_My_Spiderman
Sorry for taking so long to reply
Dei_kv_morale is the morale effect table then to do what youd like I imagine youd look at all extended_casualty_penalty's, decrease losing_combat penalties, lower routing enemies and friendly considered, all recent_casualty_penalty, and all total_casualty_penalty
Its actually not too hard to understand once youre in it. Youd just balance it so more people per unit and unit per army have to be dead before heavy morale penalties,
Hope that helps

@Kelpy G

What tables would I modify if I want your moral changes but would like to have most of the enemy force being destroyed before retreating. Like I wish for at least 75% of a unit to be killed most of the time before the unit considers routing if it was a fair fight when other moral de-buffs are not occurring for that unit of course. I like meat grinder battles but with the logic you have in place. Thank you for future advice.

At this point I've used this in multiple campaigns and many battles so i'm fairly confident in the balance of the mod. When the AI does it's job battles feel dynamic and intense.Real formations and tactics seem to work well. It also seems that the problems the mod that inspired this had are fixed pretty well.

Indeed its a never ending struggle against the ai :(

Thanks mate! I'm a fan of this work you've done!

I would also be interested in how 40v40 would work as well as how well this would work in H2H. I would love to get this mod more balanced so battles will be much more dynamic. Unfortunately I dont believe the AI can ever leave an easily abusable state nor do I think any balancing will help significantly with AI battles.
I appreciate the feedback and also Im a fan of your work

Okie dokie sounds pretty good. I'd like to test it out with 40 vs 40 armies at some point soon. I'm all down for immersive battles, just need to be careful not to abuse it against the ai :D

Using this for H2H would also be VERY interesting

From a little testing naval battles appear to go mostly unchanged

@Immersaholic Sieges and town assaults have been working fine there are some issues with weird flanking and for naval i actually forgot to test naval battles and will do that and see how it goes. I would assume its similar to combat from siege tower (which i have tested)to wall but i shall test it

I'm really interested to try this and applaud you for putting in the effort, although I do have some concerns of certain fights being unrealistically ended due to how wonky Rome 2 can be. Has there been much testing of sieges/town assaults? Also, does this affect naval units?

Hit me up on discord, I will send you list I made of working morale effects in Rome 2 and what they do, since most of them dont do anything or dont work exactly as their AK descriptions says.

@kam2150 I will also say I use many combat mods (including some of your fantastic work) which i believe is probably assisting in it working better.
Also I only edited kv_morale because this is the only modding experience i have, so balancing a few values seemed easy. I would love to change how morale works entirely to be more realistic to period battles but I unfortunate lack those skills. I do have a lot of experience with the TW series and DEI in particular so balancing morale to at least try to replicate real battles was the best i could do

@BoonChi Yes it is. This mod only effects morale in battle

@kam2150 Im already in the DEI server and im open to any new info. Im also aware of most of the issues you mention hence why i decreased flanking penalties. From my testing so far it appears to be working fairly well. I know with the state of Rome 2 and modern total war in general itll never work perfectly. However from using the mod this is based on, testing this mod, and me and friends playing with it, it appears to work pretty well. Thanks for the feedback

Dont increase flanked morale penalty, the reason why I kept it low in DeI, is because game very often applies it to frontal combat. In base game CA eventually even decided to make it 0. This is especially an issue on walls, where defending unit can somehow get both flanked and rear morale penalty because one model got positioned in weird way. Buff/debuff for flanks open/safe is also not working well and one of them is not working at all, as in you can make it -1000 morale and it makes no difference (I recall only buff worked).
Fatigue penalty also does not work well, any unit with training level "trained" and above cuts penalty by 50%, meaning it only really affects lower tier units.
There are many stuff in kv_morale that simply don't work, like penalty for fighting cavalry. If you visit DeI discord, I can teach you a bit more about how morale works.

Kinda a stupid question, but is this save game compatible?

@Ragnarok Thanks for the feedback. Glad it's working well

Just tested it, internet is faster than I remember lol. Seems to work fine, units break, reform, and 'react' well. A unit caught out of position will rout swiftly, ones getting flanked by cavalry will break, et cetera. I may need to ditch some extra mods, though.

This mod will work with any unit so long as its a DEI mod since all ive edited are morale penalty tables

Also Im hoping to reach a good balance were battles last a while but its mainly positioning and flanking instead of the bloody grind of melee and multiple cycle charges. I believe this will improve battle flow and make it more accurate to history.

I'll redownload R2 but may not get to this test today, hopefully it works with all the new units.

Ill try it out and let you know how it goes. I like the idea, DEI battles are great for longer battles, but are often very sloggy when it can take 5-6 cycle charges into the rear of mid to the high tier infantry to break them. IMO, in an ideal balance, any light troop should break from a rear charge, any mid tier unit should withstand 1 and break on the second, and heavy inf should withstand 2. All assuming heavy cav or shock cav at base stat values.

Im open to all balancing feedback as this is my first mod