MechWarrior 5: Mercenaries

MechWarrior 5: Mercenaries

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pRaX 14 Jun, 2021 @ 9:25am
[MOD] TTRulez AI Discussion
TTRulez_AI Mod Discussion
https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2545594508
So I've tried this now for a couple of missions.
The enemy AI Mechs behave alot better and aren't such pushovers anymore as before.
I'm quite happy with them.
Though I get the feeling that they're aimlocked at you more than they already were in vanilla, even when not being a direct threat to them and I wonder if that's where my perception of them not being pushovers anymore stems from.
Which would be a bit disappointing tbh.
But the Lancemate AI is... still braindead but different?
It seems to solve some issues from the Vanilla AI but seems to add new issues instead.
I actually experienced more passiveness in situations where they didn't use to be but still retain their original pacifist issues aswell.
The default Lance formation seems to be a scuffed line formation now for some reason?
Most of the time more damage is recieved but dished out damage seems to be more or less the same to even worse.
And no, I do not mindlessly charge into the fray.
Quite the contrary. I approach my battles milsim style with high emphasis on location and situational awareness.

Idk, I'm just gonna chalk some of it down being due to bugs with the mod for now and keep testing.
So far I'm not convinced but it's also still early.

PS: I don't expect a magic fix.

Gonna keep updating this.

MechRoles Spreadsheet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hpjIl-LY2VZS2ku42Qk0Qn77yTn0In8OjLe1Cze3mXg/
Last edited by pRaX; 13 Jul, 2021 @ 1:10pm
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Showing 1-15 of 41 comments
yrrot_7 6 14 Jun, 2021 @ 9:45am 
The nexus page has a lot more details about how the AI is changed by the mod. Might be worth checking out his descriptions:

https://www.nexusmods.com/mechwarrior5mercenaries/mods/269
pRaX 14 Jun, 2021 @ 9:55am 
Originally posted by yrrot_7:
The nexus page has a lot more details about how the AI is changed by the mod. Might be worth checking out his descriptions:

https://www.nexusmods.com/mechwarrior5mercenaries/mods/269
Thanks but I've read this multiple times already and everything was taken into consideration. I've also downloaded the provided documentation from there aswell.
Last edited by pRaX; 14 Jun, 2021 @ 9:55am
EvolutionKills 14 Jun, 2021 @ 4:27pm 
So far, AI seems to run hot and cold. When it's working, it's really working. Light mechs freakin' book it, and never really stop. They'll flank around buildings and cover, and typically spend less time being idle while in combat.

But when something does break, its real obvious. Getting stuck on terrain, extended periods of inaction, trouble transitioning to action after an assigned target has been neutralized.

Also, did anyone else notice that Jump Jet capable mechs spend a LOT of time airborne? Not only that, but the Jump Jet physics for the player are weird too. You get an initial thrust (red jets), then horizontal thrust kicks in (blue jets), and you can really rocket yourself through the sky. Even as a 75 ton Marauder MAD-5D, I was very surprised at both my hang time and velocity.

While I have quite a few mods, I didn't get any that explicitly altered Jump Jet behavior, and I only noticed this behavior after the installing this AI mod.
pRaX 14 Jun, 2021 @ 4:35pm 
Originally posted by EvolutionKills:
So far, AI seems to run hot and cold. When it's working, it's really working. Light mechs freakin' book it, and never really stop. They'll flank around buildings and cover, and typically spend less time being idle while in combat.

But when something does break, its real obvious. Getting stuck on terrain, extended periods of inaction, trouble transitioning to action after an assigned target has been neutralized.
Phew... I'm just glad I'm not tripping here.

Originally posted by EvolutionKills:
Also, did anyone else notice that Jump Jet capable mechs spend a LOT of time airborne? Not only that, but the Jump Jet physics for the player are weird too. You get an initial thrust (red jets), then horizontal thrust kicks in (blue jets), and you can really rocket yourself through the sky. Even as a 75 ton Marauder MAD-5D, I was very surprised at both my hang time and velocity.

While I have quite a few mods, I didn't get any that explicitly altered Jump Jet behavior, and I only noticed this behavior after the installing this AI mod.
Yes actually. I think the mod touches JJ behaviour aswell. The thing is, it should only be affecting AI according to the Nexus mod page but it clearly doesn't.
https://www.nexusmods.com/mechwarrior5mercenaries/mods/269
EvolutionKills 14 Jun, 2021 @ 4:52pm 
Don't get me wrong, if the changes to JJ behavior weren't intended for the player, I consider it a happy accident. The new behavior is WAY more fun and useful than the old ones. You can jump up high enough to get some air, then once the horizontal jets kick in, just keep feathering the jets and you can cover ground very quickly. JJ's actually seem to impart momentum to you when you use them, allowing you to quickly vault over base walls or rock formations for cover.

I consider them a big improvement.
Last edited by EvolutionKills; 14 Jun, 2021 @ 4:53pm
pRaX 14 Jun, 2021 @ 5:00pm 
Originally posted by EvolutionKills:
Don't get me wrong, if the changes to JJ behavior weren't intended for the player, I consider it a happy accident. The new behavior is WAY more fun and useful than the old ones. You can jump up high enough to get some air, then once the horizontal jets kick in, just keep feathering the jets and you can cover ground very quickly. JJ's actually seem to impart momentum to you when you use them, allowing you to quickly vault over base walls or rock formations for cover.

I consider them a big improvement.
No, no. I got that. I totally agree even. I found the vanilla JJs so meh that I never use them and rather free up the tonnage. Still, that should be clarified a bit more clearly unless I really messed up with my reading comprehension.
EvolutionKills 14 Jun, 2021 @ 5:07pm 
Originally posted by pRaX:
No, no. I got that. I totally agree even. I found the vanilla JJs so meh that I never use them and rather free up the tonnage. Still, that should be clarified a bit more clearly unless I really messed up with my reading comprehension.


I'm afraid you are right. From the Nexus page.

"Be aware jumpjet burntime is increased for AI, so if you want lore-based jumps try not to use for >2seconds (2 seconds gives TT rules distances). "

So yeah, players have access to the behavior by design. It's just on the player to not use them past 2 seconds if you want to stick to boring old 'lore friendly' JJ behavior.
pRaX 14 Jun, 2021 @ 5:13pm 
Ah okay. That's a weird solution if I've ever seen one haha.
EvolutionKills 14 Jun, 2021 @ 5:56pm 
I lack the restraint to stop myself from having more fun.
Sparra 14 Jun, 2021 @ 7:19pm 
Does anyone know if this works with the "YetAnotherWeapon" and "YetAnotherWeaponClan" mods? I assume it would since it seems to mostly be looking at effective weapon ranges and comparing them, but I'm wondering if anyone knew for sure.
Oraeon1224 4 14 Jun, 2021 @ 8:15pm 
2
There were a couple of bugs with this version. I am trying to fix them, but still having editor issues making it very hard to playtest (I have to test in editor to watch what is breaking, in game play isn't very helpful). Currently skirmisher and missileboat/antiaircraft mechs may not be firing enough or locking up. Skirmisher had a mistake on node arrangement that could make phoenix hawk and similar lancemates freeze up during follow me behavior. Antiaircraft can also fire too little if the enemy tank is out of LOS. Trying to update and fix this.

With regard to jumpjets. I can only alter one file that is the same for the AI and the player. For TT realistic jumps the AI uses 2 seconds of burn. At 2 seconds of burn you should move forward 30m per JJ installed (that distance includes the descent) and reach an altitude of 10m per JJ installed. So a mech with 6 JJ would jump forward from standing still 180m with a max height of 60 meters. As a player you can feather JJ and use other techniques to get very fast (I can go 250kph in an assassin). Its up to you if you use the JJ in non-lorefriendly ways, I don't find it particularly game breaking.

Hopefully I will get the bugs ironed out in the next few weeks. But the editor is making it very hard.
Last edited by Oraeon1224; 14 Jun, 2021 @ 8:17pm
pRaX 14 Jun, 2021 @ 8:32pm 
Originally posted by Oraeon1224:
There were a couple of bugs with this version. I am trying to fix them, but still having editor issues making it very hard to playtest (I have to test in editor to watch what is breaking, in game play isn't very helpful). Currently skirmisher and missileboat/antiaircraft mechs may not be firing enough or locking up. Skirmisher had a mistake on node arrangement that could make phoenix hawk and similar lancemates freeze up during follow me behavior. Antiaircraft can also fire too little if the enemy tank is out of LOS. Trying to update and fix this.

With regard to jumpjets. I can only alter one file that is the same for the AI and the player. For TT realistic jumps the AI uses 2 seconds of burn. At 2 seconds of burn you should move forward 30m per JJ installed (that distance includes the descent) and reach an altitude of 10m per JJ installed. So a mech with 6 JJ would jump forward from standing still 180m with a max height of 60 meters. As a player you can feather JJ and use other techniques to get very fast (I can go 250kph in an assassin). Its up to you if you use the JJ in non-lorefriendly ways, I don't find it particularly game breaking.

Hopefully I will get the bugs ironed out in the next few weeks. But the editor is making it very hard.
Hey, no rush man. Take your time and all the time you need. I can imagine you aren't exactly working under the best circumstances due to the current situation with the game's update and the tools provided.
And don't worry about the JJ's. Your JJ changes are actually great and make them fun.
I really appreciate the efforts you put in even though I'd wish PGI would do this themselves or not making this necessary in the first place.
ุReshy 14 Jun, 2021 @ 10:19pm 
I noticed sometimes passiveness on your AI's part, their aggressiveness should be based partially on how damaged the player is. I've had instances where I'm behind cover, and the lancemates won't go around said corner to engage the mech right behind it. Not sure if it's due to sensors in the game being kind of awful but it is something I noticed. Something to make the AI able to share armor more effectively would be appreciated.

Aside from the AI bugs, I think that the AI pilot skills should still add to damage, since enemy mechs that are Veteran or Elite have 20-40% damage reduction, which those maxed out skills only really work to offset that increase in durability they have.
Last edited by ุReshy; 14 Jun, 2021 @ 10:22pm
ุReshy 15 Jun, 2021 @ 2:24am 
Three more things that could be looked at:

Enemies seem to target more based off closeness rather than dangerousness. For example a Raven that's shooting some SRMs gets priority over a Victor pumping AC rounds into a mech if the raven is closer (assuming both are players, since players get most of the aggro).

Enemies sometimes will prioritize attacking the defense target over hitting the player or their lance mates, even in passing. This behavior should be reserved for lighter mechs than heavier ones.

Your AI Lancemates when they're told to destroy a target will go back into formation once they have done so, rather than finishing off whatever group of enemies remain there. It might be worth making them act as if they're told to stand in that area after the AI gets destroyed for some amount of time before they return, so you don't need to retask them for each individual tank that comes up.
Midas 17 Jun, 2021 @ 3:24pm 
Originally posted by Oraeon1224:

With regard to jumpjets. I can only alter one file that is the same for the AI and the player. For TT realistic jumps the AI uses 2 seconds of burn. At 2 seconds of burn you should move forward 30m per JJ installed (that distance includes the descent) and reach an altitude of 10m per JJ installed. So a mech with 6 JJ would jump forward from standing still 180m with a max height of 60 meters. As a player you can feather JJ and use other techniques to get very fast (I can go 250kph in an assassin). Its up to you if you use the JJ in non-lorefriendly ways, I don't find it particularly game breaking.

Hopefully I will get the bugs ironed out in the next few weeks. But the editor is making it very hard.

What about how this works with coop? I'm noticing that the secondary players in coop never benefit from these jumpjet changes.
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