Thank you for this mod ! I have a lot of fun with it, redoing dei campaigns ! May I ask if it's possible to change the threshold for Shattered state? I would love to keep routing units routing for longer, to give them more chances to turn back.

does this mod work with vanilla rome 2 as well?

@JesusChristIsLord probably but would require testing to check balance. I've only messed with morale so everything else would be similar to that mod.

I guess sudden casualties might be less common but still probably enough there to make battles play out okay.

Hey a quick note I've put in some updates and tested it quite a bit over past few days. Pretty happy with where things are at but let me know for feedback or anything acting weird.

I've kept the slightly reduced impact of rear attacks meaning units can hold for a short while when assaulting walls (they always think they are being flanked here). Sieges seem to play out okay now.

Increased impact of friendlies routing to increase chance of chain routs as originally intended
Increased impact of casualties suffered over a short period of time on morale - this should mean that a rear charge will still in most cases causes a unit to rout.

A lot of other minor tweaking with morale to get the balance right.

Battles seem to be playing out great now

During testing with AI battles I have seen one side been mostly routed, then rally and rout the other side to win the battle show casing how quickly it can swing.

Looks like it.

is this updated for the new version of DEI?

Amazing mod, finally Rome 2's battles are truly enjoyable

Hi, would this work well with DEI slower battle submod?

For sieges: Would it be possible to increase morale when "inside city" or "defending walls"? something like that. but also has to be added to attacking units. otherwise they break while defenders dont...
in 2 weeks i have more time again and will look into it as well

The only suggestion I currently have might be looking at how to win a battle without outright flanking since Roman manipular/cohort tactics were very straightforward 'punch through the enemy line' kinda stuff, which is hard to pull off...but personally I find that fairly workable already with the multiple lines of units, it's just a bit more of a meatgrinder than it was 'historically'.

Anything else is really dependent on the AI growing a brain and learning how to use stuff like phalanxes properly and that doesn't seem all that likely to me.

The only way I can think of at the moment is toning down the morale impact of being hit in the rear, though this is going to impact field battles. I could probably compensate by increasing the morale hit from losses that say a rear charge by cav would create. I would need to play around with it and do some testing. Otherwise I am not sure if there is somewhere I can make modifiers for siege battle specifically - I'll do some research.

I did test a few siege battles which seemed to work okay - units assaulting would break a bit easier but tended to fight enough to make it workable. I haven't had any instant breaking on walls but it may be down to the units and modifiers where this can happen.

Any other ideas or suggestions?

Arcade effects removal mod maybe Im not entirely sure

Hm. Darn. Charge morale is so important.

Semi-related question, is there a way to turn off the modifier bits that pop up alongside the unit flags? They kinda break immersion.

Glad to see this mod is back
From my experience in testing my version of this mod it's just exposed flanks in terms of units on walls. When they climb onto the walls they have no formation so it detects theyre flanked on almost all sides and the combing morale penalties cause the instant route and there is a morale buff for defenders but for attackers i think the only effect that may work is buffing charge moralle

Is there a 'using siege engines' or 'on walls' modifier sort of thing you can hook into? IDK how modding morale works, but you might be able to fiddle with turning off the 'broken formation' debuff for assaulting units...tbh though it makes escalades as risky as they were historically and kinda forces you to hit undefended areas of wall first which I think is nice.

Apologies for not updating for so long guys. I have got a quick update out which should help some of the concerns. I have tried to not go overboard with changes for now while I continue to test over next few days.

I need to have a look into sieges still and see what I can do on that front.

Ive tried to make a fix

https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3123832607

Love the idea of this mod, had tons of fun. Hope it gets updated soon with a bit less extreme penalties on morale. It is just a bit too much, a little tweaking would make it perfect for DEI

Not playable, because units defending walls will immediately break because of "loss of formation"

The main mod has been updated heavily so this mod is probably not a great idea to toss in.

This mod caused my battle formations to get all messed up and my armies to rout in battles where I had a clear advantage. Love the idea though, will download again if fixed.

FOUND THE MOD THAT KEPT BREAKING MY UNITS WHEN THEY CLIMB WALLS

Also there are often some fun scenarios, where enemy's routing units cause a chain rout in my army, as they breach my formations and give a huge debuff stack to my army too. My army routs even after winning the battle, which is quite hilarious.

What kinda works is abandoning the walls completely and instead boxing out the city center. That way you can side step the glitchy engine and morale debuff stacking more effectively.

@Ragnarok The problem is that the current system stacks huge amounts of de-buffs to the morale of the unit. It means an experienced legionary unit in a good position often randomly routs even before contact because they are hit by the 'formation breached', 'flanked' etc modifiers. The engine just doesnt handle sieges well and this mod highlights those problems to the max.

If you are willing to auto-resolve sieges, then this is a good mod. In its current stage its simply not fun or viable to play sieges manually.

@Goosigoo Honestly makes sense historically. Trying to take contested walls against anything approaching even odds was a non-starter.

If this ever updates, combo it with that submod that makes it so you don't take casualties while prosecuting a siege.

Sieges are absolutely unplayable with this mod installed

It would be really cool if this mod would update

The only thing that sucks is CAV can route an entire army with no problem.

I really like your mod because it forces you to fight smartly instead of just rushing the ennemy units straightly. However, there are 2 main problems with your mod. A ennemy unit routing through your units will give you the breaking formation malus. Siege battle are much more difficult because using ladders/siege towers to storm walls will always give your units the breaking formation malus when fighting ennemy units defending the wall.

Is this ever going to be updated?

This mod is a necessity imo to make battles feel real and way kore enjoyable. I absolutely love the flow of battle having to make more strategic maneuvers rather than steamrolling weaker armies. The best feeling is watching your cavalry finally routing the enemy cavalry and turning them to flank the enemy army after your infantry units have been struggling to keep formation while fighting the an often superior enemy infantry.

One suggestion, and it may already be a part of the mod, but if a unit has nowhere to escape/flanked on all sodes, they should fight to the death. Give the enemy an enticing way out to break them and let the real slaughter begin.

This has created realistic tactics, but I'd suggest a slight update - if possible, broken/shattered units shouldn't affect morale. I've had units rout because they either had their formation broken or were 'outflanked' by fleeing units.

Haven't tested it on sieges yet, though.

This mod is awesome especially running down those annoying suicidal archers that never rout now they do when cavalry smashes into them. I love this!

Please update for the current DEI version, thanks.

Try a few battles before giving up on the mod. I'm getting used to it now and loving it. Mistakes are much more costly making battles risky. I was just ambushed and almost sh!t my pants. Normally it wouldn't be a big deal but the mod makes getting flanked disastrous. We ended up losing a couple units before we could form up but the ones that made it to the circle survived. Best battle in recent memory. This campaign I've had much more intense battles with tactics that feel like they matter. I haven't had the opportunity to try sieges but I imagine I'll be much more careful with my attacking number ratio. Also I feel like this gives cheap large armies a possible advantage that allows them to envelope your army from all sides. No more hiring a few expensive legionaries that murder giant armies. I do worry the AI might not know how to properly fight battles and sieges sometimes but overall this has been fun.

@LiptonDI higher in load order. So place it at 1 and DEI at 2,3 and 4.

Before DEI means above or bellow the main mods ?

Great mod! Everyone complaining about this mod are certainly noobs.

What difficulty do you suggest playing on?

I agree with Grif109, it's completely busted and makes scaling the walls utterly useless, and to add to that, men rout randomly running past enemy units after barely touching them for 5 seconds.

Down from confident and and barely 20 loses. That's unreasonably punishing.

I agree with @Jarazakan and I also believe this might need an update for DEI 1.3

sorry, these are not in order due to the character limit.

This mod is really cool, I love playing with it as it makes the game more realistic, but I was wondering if you could a copy of this mod that does the same thing but with buffs to Rome and the Germanic tribes and the Spartans.

The Germanic tribes were simply great warriors and had faith in their war gods. They often thought that death was just the next stage of life and fought fanatically. The Spartans had such a training system that it put discipline and fear to shame. Just look at the 300, not the movie, the unit, It was made up of the best of the young men of Sparta and was rotated often, that is all I have to say, I don't know to much about Sparta or the Germanic tribes but figured it would be best to include them in here. Thank you

Rome because their discipline was so good due to the Romans pride and their punishments. If Romans ran from the battlefield they would be found and executed, and if an entire cohort rant the centurion would be executed with his men even if he didn't run and if he didn't die in the battle. There were also punishments like decimation, meaning one tenth, or death to a tenth. The legion would basically draw lots and every tenth man who drew badly would be killed by the other nine men, The officers had their own lots so the higher up the chain you were, the more likely you were to be executed. And the punishments didn't stop there, they would be whipped, beaten, given the worst jobs, and in many cases, be put directly on the front line of battle where the most casualties were likely to be dealt. Lets just say it didn't take long to have a fresh legion.

Seige AI is busted, units on that get up on the walls with ladders rout after a minute.

Hmm, I can't tell a difference. Moved it in the load order as well after I felt it wasn't working, and it made no difference in custom battle tests

Hey, I am using your mod with DEI 1.3 - units route much faster now - maybe toned down like 50%? Appreciate your effort as normal DEI is unreasenable endless slaughtering...

PLEASE- make for vanilla campagne- thank you