Originally posted by Faerniir:

Great mod, but, I got the thing all people fear the most out of any mod. "Out Of Order" content in the TES5EDIT lists. Causes data corruption, game crashes, etc. May want to fix this mod, or simply rebuild it from scratch.

Mostly people who report game crashes or corrupt saves do not read about the mod before hand.
They mostly have a mod that conflicts with one script of this mod and the entire game breaks.

The only thing this mod requires is common sense aside from the dawnguard DLC.

I have the Legendary package. I went through everything, read the descript, requirements, and recomended.

I'll post the error that showed up for me. Let me scroll through my TES5EDIT.

I've also spaced where the errors and locations of them are found. I'll also note them for you as well.


[00:00] Background Loader: [Skyrim - Misc.bsa] Loading Resources.
[00:00] Background Loader: [Skyrim - Shaders.bsa] Loading Resources.
[00:00] Background Loader: [Skyrim - Textures.bsa] Loading Resources.
[00:00] Background Loader: [Skyrim - Interface.bsa] Loading Resources.
[00:00] Background Loader: [Skyrim - Animations.bsa] Loading Resources.
[00:00] Background Loader: [Skyrim - Meshes.bsa] Loading Resources.
[00:00] Background Loader: [Skyrim - Sounds.bsa] Loading Resources.
[00:00] Background Loader: [Skyrim - Voices.bsa] Loading Resources.
[00:00] Background Loader: [Skyrim - VoicesExtra.bsa] Loading Resources.
[00:00] Background Loader: [Update.bsa] Loading Resources.
[00:00] Background Loader: [Dawnguard.bsa] Loading Resources.
[00:00] Background Loader: [cleaner_castlevolkihar3.bsa] Loading Resources.

[00:00] Background Loader: [Skyrim.esm] Header processed. Expecting 920184 records

---------[00:04] Background Loader: [Skyrim.esm] Warning: File contains duplicated top level group: GRUP Top "HAZD"

[00:04] Background Loader: [Update.esm] Header processed. Expecting 1285 records

[00:04] Background Loader: [Dawnguard.esm] Header processed. Expecting 101792 records

--[00:04] Background Loader: <Note: [LAND:00222222] was injected into Skyrim.esm>

--[00:04] Background Loader: <Note: [LAND:000179DB] was injected into Skyrim.esm>

--[00:04] Background Loader: [cleaner_castlevolkihar3.esp] Header processed. Expecting 19128 records


======
[00:19] Background Loader: Error: record STAT contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord VMAD 44414D56

[00:19] Background Loader: Errors were found in: CleanerEbonyMail [STAT:0343EE2D]

[00:19] Background Loader: Contained subrecords: EDID VMAD OBND MODL MODT DNAM

[00:19] Background Loader: Error: record STAT contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord VMAD 44414D56

[00:19] Background Loader: Errors were found in: CleanerBloodMagicShrine [STAT:0324BA01]

[00:19] Background Loader: Contained subrecords: EDID VMAD OBND MODL MODT DNAM

[00:21] Background Loader: finished

Originally posted by Faerniir:

======
[00:19] Background Loader: Error: record STAT contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord VMAD 44414D56

[00:19] Background Loader: Errors were found in: CleanerEbonyMail [STAT:0343EE2D]

[00:19] Background Loader: Contained subrecords: EDID VMAD OBND MODL MODT DNAM

[00:19] Background Loader: Error: record STAT contains unexpected (or out of order) subrecord VMAD 44414D56

[00:19] Background Loader: Errors were found in: CleanerBloodMagicShrine [STAT:0324BA01]

[00:19] Background Loader: Contained subrecords: EDID VMAD OBND MODL MODT DNAM

[00:21] Background Loader: finished

This seems to be the issue here.
It appears that it mostly had trouble loading the two cases.

Is there some reason why you are using TES5EDIT and not just the game or SKSE?

Reinstalled, four times. Same error showed up the same way. Do not know how to fix it. Any recomended resources?

Originally posted by Faerniir:

Reinstalled, four times. Same error showed up the same way. Do not know how to fix it. Any recomended resources?

I'm not sure. It could also do with TES5EDIT. I use SKSE and it has no problems running.

I use SKSE as well. Went through it all. Need to use TES5EDIT to clean out and fix problems for most mods.

TES5EDIT lets you do a lot more than just make things compatiable with one another. Seems like I need additional mods to fix the error. May as well, put them to the test. See if my game crashes again.

Originally posted by Faerniir:

I use SKSE as well. Went through it all. Need to use TES5EDIT to clean out and fix problems for most mods.

TES5EDIT lets you do a lot more than just make things compatiable with one another. Seems like I need additional mods to fix the error. May as well, put them to the test. See if my game crashes again.

Ya, i'm sorry, I tried to help. The dev is working out bugs on the mod, but like most mods or games, fix one bug and another appears.

Yeah. Happens to every mod or person who wants said mod. Just installed the other mods, and additional ones. AFT doesn't effect the mod btw. All the people have to do is clean AFT with TES5EDIT and it won't effect this mod at all. No compatiable issues.

Originally posted by Faerniir:

Great mod, but, I got the thing all people fear the most out of any mod. "Out Of Order" content in the TES5EDIT lists. Causes data corruption, game crashes, etc. May want to fix this mod, or simply rebuild it from scratch.

Hi, glad you like the mod. Here is my response to your conversation about TES5EDIT errors. Keep in mind that my answers sound shrewd, or contemptuous or even condescending. It's not meant to. I am just stating the facts with no cream or sugar to save myself time.

TES5EDIT gives false positives. Especially in the case of this mod. I use to use TES5EDIT to clean mods so I am very familiar. Those errors mean nothing. I now use the one tool designed specifically for this. The Creation Kit's compare and deletion tool.

I sometimes used external tools like tessnip and tesedit to bring in custom objects. This will make TES5EDIT think these objects are out of order because they are assigned id's outside the creation kit. It doesn't cause any problems. Even though you'll hear self proclaimed experts in TES5EDIT claiming otherwise (who are all full to the brim with loads of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥). Why do I know this? Because I've already been down this road and did the research personally.

Also want to ask you why 71,000 people are presently subscribed and using this mod with no issues whatsoever. Including over 50 people I have as friends in the steam community that test for me. Some of these people actually know what they are doing with their local Skyrim modding environment. I have also worked with many successful modding authors.

I have successfully supported this and several other mods over the years which gives me more experience with issues related to this mod and the Creation Kit than most people (barring other mod authors). I have built a FAQ, answered hundreds of questions to fruition fixing their issues and worked tirelessly to learn and debug. I have also rebuilt this mod from scratch as you suggested this is version 49 build 3. Aside from a few annoyances that are not save or game breaking I am quite sure this version needs no such re-work.

I know your issue is related to mods that you have installed that changed vanilla files in Skyrim, or you deleted mods and continued playing and making game saves, or you installed a mod that conflicts with this mod, or you used some 3rd party tool that reaped havoc on this or some other mod on your computer. It's really that simple.

Originally posted by DiGiTaL CLeaNeR:

TES5EDIT gives false positives. Especially in the case of this mod. I use to use TES5EDIT to clean mods so I am very familiar. Those errors mean nothing. I now use the one tool designed specifically for this. The Creation Kit's compare and deletion tool.

Ok. Good to know. I don't use TES5EDIT so I wouldn't know this. I mostly use SKSE. I have a few mods that use it, along with SkyUI.

Originally posted by Gr8umbreon:

Originally posted by DiGiTaL CLeaNeR:

TES5EDIT gives false positives. Especially in the case of this mod. I use to use TES5EDIT to clean mods so I am very familiar. Those errors mean nothing. I now use the one tool designed specifically for this. The Creation Kit's compare and deletion tool.

Ok. Good to know. I don't use TES5EDIT so I wouldn't know this. I mostly use SKSE. I have a few mods that use it, along with SkyUI.

Are you Faerniir? Because I was answering his incorrect statement that this mod needs to be remade, but yeah glad this helped. Some more information you should know;

SKSE is used to extend scripting that Skyrim's vanilla engine doesn't support (so you can do things in Skyrim that normally couldn't be done).

TES5EDIT has a whole other function. It is to compare, report and assist with the cleaning or fixing of the Creation Engine made "mods".

TES5EDIT was NOT created by Bethesda. Neither was SKSE. So these are called 3rd party tools. They were made by self touted experts. Who knows what their qualifications really are, but the main stream have adopted these tools and believe in them hardheartedly. I do not. The tools that come with the Creation Kit are much easier to use.

When using 3rd party tools you'll hear all kinds of opinions on what they can do. From what I've learned it's mostly hype and marketing. Although I have used these tools avidly in the past I have come to learn through tedious experience they can backfire on inexperienced users. Sometimes these tools (in the wrong hands) can create way more problems than they fix. Recommending them to novice mod subscribers who have no clue about software architecture is totally irresponsible!
If you have an issue with a mod the best course of action is to alert the mod author. If they author doesn't reply the mod is unsupported and you should delete the mod and roll back to a save from before you installed it.

If you aren't familiar with software development and the technical aspects of game engines, or are not willing to read and learn about these things, I would not recommend using them. You'll most assuredly end up with a busted Skyrim install that is unusable like Faerniir here. Now he's flaming my mod (and probably others) as the culprit of his Skryim save's demise.

It's easy to flame mod authors when you have issues after installing a mod. But this doesn't mean the mod you just installed caused the issue, it means it's not compatible with the changes other mods made or that you made when managing your mods such as deleting them and keeping the save thereafter.

Installing mods is risky business because they were created by people who have no understanding of what they are doing. They go into the CK and start just changing every damn vanilla object.

Of course my huge mod is going to have an issue. It's looking for the original pristine game files and they've installed a mod/s that breaks or deletes them!!!! This is the mod subscribers fault. Because he doesn't realize he's throwing poison pills at each other every time he installs a new mod. This mod is clean and does not change vanilla.

Makes sense, as I can still run the mod, though, it does crash from time to time if you do not finish the story through the vampire's attack on the VampireHunters.

Other mods tend to conflict with this more than AFT. I could use some examples, but they are up there with gore and other such things. Trying to keep it PG, as Steam is very strict about that policy. The files do not corrupt or come out of order, as you have stated.

I've thrown the mod entirely through PowerSell and rendered to each and every didgit I could happen to notice. Didn't touch a thing, just looked at the binary and codes is all, besides scanning for fault lines as well.

None showed up, unless I threw in some other mods that I can not name, as Steam will flag me again for doing so. there were conflicts on the core files in some areas, but none over written or disabled, simply had near the same activator choices, I could use AFT as an example on this with some of the custom NPCs who gaurd around the castle, as some posted it does somewhat conflict with their settings and routes.

To fix that problem of them being Idle, just command them to follow, use AFT, then the mod disables AFT for a few seconds before booting back up and then everything is fine when you tell them to go away. That fixes some of the conflicts, not all, with AFT trying to inject the NPCs into it's files.

As for the other mods I can not name. They simply try to inject parts of the mod's functions into themselves, which is why some of the core files appear out of order, or in places they shouldn't be. This is why I kept getting data errors on TES5EDIT. Not your fault as a modder, simply the misunderstanding of myself. I was not wrong to ask or report a bug, as it gives more insight on some conflicts that were not presented prior.

I do thank you for answering my questions and concerns.

@DiGiTaL CLeaNeR - I'm glad to help. I know you are busy with tweaks and updates on the mod. I'd thought you would just like some help with people coming to report bugs.

Originally posted by Faerniir:

Makes sense, as I can still run the mod, though, it does crash from time to time if you do not finish the story through the vampire's attack on the VampireHunters.

Other mods tend to conflict with this more than AFT. I could use some examples, but they are up there with gore and other such things. Trying to keep it PG, as Steam is very strict about that policy. The files do not corrupt or come out of order, as you have stated.

I've thrown the mod entirely through PowerSell and rendered to each and every didgit I could happen to notice. Didn't touch a thing, just looked at the binary and codes is all, besides scanning for fault lines as well.

None showed up, unless I threw in some other mods that I can not name, as Steam will flag me again for doing so. there were conflicts on the core files in some areas, but none over written or disabled, simply had near the same activator choices, I could use AFT as an example on this with some of the custom NPCs who gaurd around the castle, as some posted it does somewhat conflict with their settings and routes.

To fix that problem of them being Idle, just command them to follow, use AFT, then the mod disables AFT for a few seconds before booting back up and then everything is fine when you tell them to go away. That fixes some of the conflicts, not all, with AFT trying to inject the NPCs into it's files.

As for the other mods I can not name. They simply try to inject parts of the mod's functions into themselves, which is why some of the core files appear out of order, or in places they shouldn't be. This is why I kept getting data errors on TES5EDIT. Not your fault as a modder, simply the misunderstanding of myself. I was not wrong to ask or report a bug, as it gives more insight on some conflicts that were not presented prior.

I do thank you for answering my questions and concerns.

Actually, if you follow these instructions on the FAQ you can use AFT with this mod seamlessly. It's as simple as load order and re-installing this mod 2 or three times.
https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/workshop/filedetails/discussion/129969995/846966336549220989/#c846966336549568886

I am always happy to field bug reports from subscribers. Yeah most definitely thanks for dropping by. 99% of issues are fixed if subscribers follow the instructions at the link I posted above.

You can actually scan through the comments section for this mod and find subscriber after subscriber finally following those instructions and reporting back "fixed! Thank you DC!!!".

Good luck and have fun playing Skyrim :)

PS
If you know of conflicting mods, please report them. You can in fact list mod names here and have no consequences.

Originally posted by Gr8umbreon:

@DiGiTaL CLeaNeR - I'm glad to help. I know you are busy with tweaks and updates on the mod. I'd thought you would just like some help with people coming to report bugs.

Hi Gr8umbreon, I appreciate the help. I make time to answer questions like these. I just might not get to them for a few days. As far as updates and tweaks to this mod there are none. It is as polished as it's going to get. It's finished.