Originally posted by AwesomeGuyDj:

The maxine, well its decent now? the 10 ammo a second plus not being able to pickup ammo while its active is a bit much, so i suggest either removing the ammo consumed or ammo pickup.

The Maxine still only has the Speed Boost on kill, right?

Originally posted by AwesomeGuyDj:

Originally posted by A Spy!:

I kind of think the point of the Shuriken was to be a primary, but I never liked using it because I prefer scatterguns. I think it should remain as a pseudo primary, but I agree that it might need a buff.

statistically? no reason to use it. Stock with crit a cola or pistol or milk or whatever is way better. Its a weapon you can use to dick around with, but its not nearly as good.

Oh yeah I won't deny that, I'm just saying that the Six-Point Shuriken seems like it was made to be a primary in secondary slot is all.

Ok, I'm day late on this, but I do need to give my two cents on a few things that need addressing.

Don't copy and paste stats from other people without crediting it. If you want to give another class a weapon, frame your comment as a revision to someone else's idea. This thread is for criticism as well as posting new ideas, but please don't steal ideas.

If you got a problem with something someone else is doing, raging at them in post isn't going to solve anything. Curb your anger, make a to-the-point response, and if the person isn't going to change, we have a reporting system for a reason.

I feel the need to remind people that there is such a thing as stat spam. We only have a limited space to inform people of what these new weapons do. I impose a 6 stat limit on my own suggestions as I recall someone a while ago telling people. I suggest new posters try to follow this rule as well.

In light of recent events on this post, I'm just posting some things that might raise a few issues.

Originally posted by sqwid:

Speaking of the Six Point Shoryuken, is there any reason why we can't change it so that you can still have your Primary out? With a few stat changes it could be a decent secondary instead of a lackluster primary.

I kind of think the point of the Shuriken was to be a primary, but I never liked using it because I prefer scatterguns. I think it should remain as a pseudo primary, but I agree that it might need a buff.

Some new stuff for the Medic

Medigun

The Prolonged Protector

Keep firing at him. It's just going to prolong the effects.

+33% Ubercharge rate
-50% Ubercharge rate while overhealing (From boosted Ubercharge rate)

Uber Type: NANOMACHINES SON!
Ubercharge is divided into two sections. Using Uber gives 2.5 seconds of all three Vaccinator buffs at 50%. However, if the patient takes damage while ubered, the Uber time can be extended to up to 10 seconds. Time extention is based off of amount of damage.

Model: https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=20696&searchtext=

Syringe Gun

The Surgeon General's Warning

Smoking kills. Let's inject people with some!

+Deal minicrits against enemies who are bleeding, burning, or milked.
+Deal crits against players Jarate'd or marked for death.
+On Hit on enemy with less than 50% HP: Marks player for death for three seconds.
-20% damage penalty
-On hit: Reduces time of debuffs by .5 seconds on hit
-No random critical hits

Model: https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=878573&searchtext=

Melee

The Redistributor

Your blood is needed elsewhere.

+On hit on enemy: Gain one stack of Blood. Max 3.
+On hit on enemy: Restores 25 HP.
+Hitting a friendly player with stacks of Blood will restore 50 HP per stack of Blood, consuming all stacks. Hitting a disguised Spy will still consume stacks, but will only restore 10 HP per stack, and will not deal damage.
-25% damage penalty
-25% swing speed penalty

Taunts with the Ubersaw taunt. If it hits, gain three stacks of blood immediately and restores your health to full.

Model: https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=111083007&searchtext=

Any suggestions?

Originally posted by Loreknight:

Originally posted by Wisely:

I meant even more so, like the vaccinator attribute, I'm trying to not encourage pocketting, becasue people seem to have a big problem with it

That makes no sense, as that is a downside for overhealing targets.

You just don't understand medic very well if you're going around pocketing people

Winning rounds by popping uber and then pocketing with the Booster Shot is a thing. A 900HP raging Russian is going to be nigh invulnerable to everyone but the Spy (Hell, I did that strategy in one of the Admins Vs. Players matches and it worked amazingly the first round when I could farm Uber before pocketing a Heavy.) and the fact that it's fairly easy to get it if you know how to not die as Medic (or, you know setup time) is kinda OP if we're going to complain about overheal. Booster Shot Uber pocketing is like W+M1 with Pyro. It's completely and totally shameless and stupid strategy to W+M1, but it does get results a lot more times than it should. There needs to be some incentive for the medic to take the medigun off his Uber-overhealed pocket is all I'm saying, because there currently isn't really a good reason if you pop Uber.

Perhaps removing the doubling of your already insane overheal and replacing it with the old Amputator aura it had earlier, but keeping the self-overheal. At least then you don't have a quandry over losing that overheal boost when it comes to changing targets.

Originally posted by Loreknight:

Originally posted by A Spy!:

Whatever happened to the notification on the bottom of the HUD telling you what medigun your med was using if it was custom?

As for the Booster Shot's stats, why not remove the slower overheal decay buff and introduce a damage vulnerability for the Medic while he's healing? This will discourage pocketing and encourage what I thought the intended purpose of the Booster Shot was, preventative medicine over being a field medic.

No, that's just horrid. This item is about overheal. And if hte medic is vulnerable while he's healing, that doesn't discourage pocketing, it discourages healing. The intended purpose ofh te item was better overheal

I always used the Booster Shot when I played medic, and I always ended up pocketing whenever I got the Uber because you could get a Heavy up to 900HP and, as long as you kept healing him, that was your new overheal cap. If we want to talk overheal, we should consider something to prevent that from happening anymore because that's OP as all hell first of all.

Originally posted by Loreknight:

Originally posted by sqwid:

As I've said before, the Booster Shot eliminates pretty much all of the counters that any class has. It allows classes to get an overheal that can't be dealt with by other classes unless there's a Med on the other team running it to compensate. The only class that can be used to counter it are Spies, but because Pyros are able to Spycheck so easily, it allows for the team running the Booster Shot to have a huge advantage over a team with a Medic running any other Medigun. That's why I believe it needs a change. It forces the enemy to counterplay with the same weapon, which is bad design.

Scouts using dispensers to resupply constantly is a big overstatement. Scouts usually hang around dispensers about the same amount of time as other classes, maybe even less. Scouts tend to be in the front lines collecting health packs as their main sources of health and picking up ammo packs as their main source of ammo. Dispensers are a last resort when the Scout is at very low health and a Medic isn't around or is busy.

I've never seen a good Scout lure an enemy into a sentry because they aren't really that big of a surprise (they make beeps and the whole team can hear a sentry firing). GOOD Scouts will get into a fight, pick off targets, and back off when they've taken some damage. They usually will deal enough damage to pick off an enemy instead of trying to "lure" enemies into a sentry. Usually if any Scout tries to do that, they are just fucking around and not taking things seriously.

And lastly to wrap this argument up, I am listening carefully to every point you are trying to make and understand your logic. I am simply counterarguing to try to prove my logic as well. There is a difference between not listening to your points and arguing against them. Remember that no one's opinion about how this game is objectively right. It is our job to make our own cases for how this mod goes and the developers will decide whether our ideas is made into the game. For now I feel like every single statement made about these two weapons have been made and any further discussion will just rehash points that have already been stated. We will let Crafting and the developers decide what to do at this point in order so this thread doesn't get clogged up.

I have started to think that 200% is a bit over the top for normal overheal, so maybe reduce it to 175%. The uber needs visual effects to go along with it to better alert the heal target, it needs a faster overheal build rate, but remove the normal healing increase from the uber.

Whatever happened to the notification on the bottom of the HUD telling you what medigun your med was using if it was custom?

As for the Booster Shot's stats, why not remove the slower overheal decay buff and introduce a damage vulnerability for the Medic while he's healing? This will discourage pocketing and encourage what I thought the intended purpose of the Booster Shot was, preventative medicine over being a field medic.

Originally posted by CHAWLZ!:

The Duke has been a pretty hot topic lately so I think it'd be a great thing to bring up. At the moment, though it takes away a lot through the loss of knife and disguise kit, it provides a deceptively powerful list of bonuses that make Duke-equipped Spies fairly hard to deal with and a force to be reckoned with in any chaotic firefight, especially with the considerable buffs the base Spy class has seen in the past ~year. I've seen a number of great suggestions brought up in-game to fix the weapon so I thought I'd compile them here (Alongside some of my own) and stir up some discussion.

-Reduce speed boost on hit to 1 second
-Remove speed boost altogether
-Reduced critical damage
-Health penalty
-Reload rate penalty
-Fire rate penalty
-Reduced max ammo
-Cannot pick up ammo kits dropped by players
-Reduced acuracy

Obviously all of these things at once would cripple the weapon, so I'd like to see what the community thinks we could do with the it, because I'm a pretty big fan of the Duke personally and would like to see it in a good spot where it's considered a lot more reasonable and less rage-inducing.

I've got an interesting idea. Make the Duke more for eliminations. Keep the speed boost, but give a really stiff offhand ammo penalty, 6 in the clip, 12 offhand (Up for debate.). Introduce a ammo crate penalty as well. BUT, give a buff that gives the Spy full offhand ammo on kill (assuming that he has 12 offhand ammo. Again, up for debate.). That way he's forced to fully engage enemies instead of using the Duke as an escape tool to nope outta there when something bad happens.

Originally posted by CHAWLZ!:

Originally posted by Loreknight:

SHARP SHOOTER:
I feel like this weapon wouldn't really suit Heavy or Soldier's playstyle, as the Sharp Shooter as it stands benefits largely to shotty/melee-heavy play where it would be significantly less useful on the two slowest classes in the game who both have primary weapons that are far more useful in 90% of regular in-game situations. On Engineer I'm on the fence because it also doesn't really suit his personality to turn around a shotgun and start using it as a melee weapon, but he could use both parts to great effect and primary Sharp Shooter could turn out pretty clutch under the right circumstances.

If I could make a case for Heavy, I was dicking around with the Graphite Perisher before I had to go home to shit internet and couldn't play TF2. A shotty/melee combo to go with the Perisher that rewards not using the minigun all the time would be really nice.